FTL on cheap fares must sit in back?

Old Jul 14, 19, 1:58 pm
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FTL on cheap fares must sit in back?

I did not think much of it then, but a few months ago I was flying with a fellow FTer who was *G. At OLCI he could see many more seats than me. He could choose some windows, for me most of the seats showed occupied. I am FTL.

Last week BRU ZRH I had row 7 after timely OLCI. They moved me to row 37. Row 7 stayed completely empty, on a 320 that was 60% full.

Just now, for LX736 tomorrow, all seats until row 27 show occupied. Looking at the amount of seats for sale and my experience right when OLCI opens its just very fishy.

Does LX block the front rows for FTLs in cheap fares? Why would they do that?

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Old Jul 15, 19, 12:02 am
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*G get access to more seats. Restrictions for others are probably mostly due to load balancing issues. I don't think "FTLs in cheap fares" are treated worse than anybody else. Again, I guess you were sit at the back and your row was left empty because of load balancing.
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Old Jul 15, 19, 1:43 am
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LX uses theoretical seating where you are ranked by PCV (*G counts more than FTL when all other factors are equal) and only see seats that fit your ranking:

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Old Jul 15, 19, 5:45 am
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Most awesome reply!! Thanks!

Just another reason to pay KLM more money and avoid Swiss. I will increase my limit how much I can pay more to KLM to avoid Swiss from 50 to 75 CHF.

Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
LX uses theoretical seating where you are ranked by PCV (*G counts more than FTL when all other factors are equal) and only see seats that fit your ranking:

https://youtu.be/47N5upzhjEI
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Old Jul 15, 19, 6:00 am
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Well, BA and AF/KL use the same system... In fact AF/KL were the launch customers and developed key features of the DCS
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Old Jul 15, 19, 11:57 am
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Maybe, but I am Plat for Life on KL. So my experience on KL is many times better travelling light fares, even compared to a Sen on LX.

Anyway a nice supervisor here helped me out.
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Old Jul 15, 19, 1:31 pm
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Does the individual PCV consider past revenue or just the fare paid for this specific flight?
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Old Jul 15, 19, 1:52 pm
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Just what you paid today and your SEN/HON status.
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Old Jul 15, 19, 2:24 pm
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
Just what you paid today and your SEN/HON status.
so a SEN on a highly discounted 4k A fare in F has a lower PCV than a SEN on an expensive J fare at 7k + 2 e-vouchers?
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Old Jul 15, 19, 2:31 pm
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Probably. See the opup rules thread.
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Old Jul 16, 19, 2:43 pm
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
LX uses theoretical seating where you are ranked by PCV (*G counts more than FTL when all other factors are equal) and only see seats that fit your ranking:

https://youtu.be/47N5upzhjEI
From 3.11 in the video it confirms my suspicion. FTL on low light fare is almost as low as a regular Pax in low light fare and in my case it grouped me as lowest PCV with zero choice. I am glad to know it's not my superstition. Thanks for sharing the video.

This thread mentioned above is also interesting. As a low fare customer I am discrimated and obviously not welcome. I can live with that, already adapted my travel. Just good to know how it works.
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Old Jul 16, 19, 6:10 pm
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Originally Posted by f4free View Post
From 3.11 in the video it confirms my suspicion. FTL on low light fare is almost as low as a regular Pax in low light fare and in my case it grouped me as lowest PCV with zero choice. I am glad to know it's not my superstition. Thanks for sharing the video.

This thread mentioned above is also interesting. As a low fare customer I am discrimated and obviously not welcome. I can live with that, already adapted my travel. Just good to know how it works.
It's not a suspicion that low fare passengers with a low PCV have less choice. It's like this. You get, what you pay for.
Low fare customers are not discriminated and are welcomed, but they are less welcomed than a passenger paying more for the same seat or having a higher PCV. That's like this everywhere. In hotels customers paying more get a better room. There are thousands of other examples. It's called capitalism. Nothing to be set-up about.
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Old Jul 17, 19, 3:34 am
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Does anybody happen to know how the PCV is precisely calculated? Would be very interested in it, but I guess it's not publicly disclosed.
As *G at least I guess I'm decently high on the list just below SENs or do they actually make *Gs and SENs worth the same PCV wise? Since LH blocks the first two J rows for their own SEN and HON I assume not.
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Old Jul 17, 19, 5:21 am
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The ranking of the 17 types (plus about 8 internal types) is listed here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/25551427-post21.html

*G is above FTL. PCV is calculated using the prorated value of the ticket coupon for that segment and factored with the booking class and status. Altea also allows you marry two seperate travellers (note the value argument in the clip):

A glimpse of the ranking is at 2:20 in this clip:

The Altea DCS manual of DY is online in various web ressources if you want to read up.
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Old Jul 17, 19, 5:23 am
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
The ranking of the 17 types (plus about 8 internal types) is listed here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/25551427-post21.html

*G is above FTL. PCV is calculated using the prorated value of the ticket coupon for that segment and factored with the booking class and status. Altea also allows you marry two seperate travellers (note the value argument in the clip):
https://youtu.be/8e4xTgz-fBA

A glimpse of the ranking is at 2:20 in this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMH1podAzCo

The Altea DCS manual of DY is online in various web ressources if you want to read up.
Thanks for the info! I'll gladly read up on it.

Do you know if same day trips in F or J also factor into the PCV or is the PCV calcualted only flight specifically?

Specifically wondering since I'll be taking a Y flight but I'll have a same day F flight on a seperate ticket. My understanding is that this will not affect the PCV on the Economy flight since they are on seperate tickets. So on the Y flight I'll be graded as *G in Y (and not as F connecting pax) and on the F flight as *G in F. (not counting the cost of the flight now).
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