Edelweiss Flight - long delay
Mar 15, 2019, 9:59 pm
#17
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You don’t say where your based & a local claim agency might be easier for you.
Bott & Co are very good. www.bottonline.co.uk
www.airhelp.com
Good luck & do let us know how it goes.
Mar 16, 2019, 1:46 am
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 9
Thank you. We’re actually based in Switzerland.
For interest this is Edelweiss final reply in which they totally refuse to recognise the ECJ ruling as valid.
What is odd is that at the airport whilst checking in on the delayed flight, we were given a paper from Edelweiss which details our rights to compensation under EU261......strange????!
They say:
In accordance with Article 1, paragraph 2, of the Air Transport Agreement, Switzerland adheres by implication to the "Community acquis", meaning the legal provisions as well as the judgments, rulings and decisions of the European Court of Justice and the Commission of the EU relevant for the implementation, interpretation and application of those legal provisions as they were in existence at the time of the conclusion of the Agreement; the cut-off date is 21 June 1999.
Furthermore, the recognition of later judgments, rulings and decisions for Switzerland requires the approval by the Joint Committee within the meaning of the Air Transport Agreement.
To the extent apparent, the EU has, to the present date, not communicated any decision etc. taken by the ECJ or by the Commission to Switzerland, nor has any such decision been presented to the Joint Committee including, in particular, the above-mentioned ECJ judgment of 19 November 2009.
Therefore, in the absence of such communication to Switzerland and in the absence of approval pursuant to the rules set out in the Air Transport Agreement, the judgment of 19 November 2009 is not applicable to the present case.
For final clarification, we refer to the judgment of the district court in Bülach, 02.02.2016, which has been published in law. No compensation is due for delayed flights to Switzerland or from Switzerland.
For interest this is Edelweiss final reply in which they totally refuse to recognise the ECJ ruling as valid.
What is odd is that at the airport whilst checking in on the delayed flight, we were given a paper from Edelweiss which details our rights to compensation under EU261......strange????!
They say:
In accordance with Article 1, paragraph 2, of the Air Transport Agreement, Switzerland adheres by implication to the "Community acquis", meaning the legal provisions as well as the judgments, rulings and decisions of the European Court of Justice and the Commission of the EU relevant for the implementation, interpretation and application of those legal provisions as they were in existence at the time of the conclusion of the Agreement; the cut-off date is 21 June 1999.
Furthermore, the recognition of later judgments, rulings and decisions for Switzerland requires the approval by the Joint Committee within the meaning of the Air Transport Agreement.
To the extent apparent, the EU has, to the present date, not communicated any decision etc. taken by the ECJ or by the Commission to Switzerland, nor has any such decision been presented to the Joint Committee including, in particular, the above-mentioned ECJ judgment of 19 November 2009.
Therefore, in the absence of such communication to Switzerland and in the absence of approval pursuant to the rules set out in the Air Transport Agreement, the judgment of 19 November 2009 is not applicable to the present case.
For final clarification, we refer to the judgment of the district court in Bülach, 02.02.2016, which has been published in law. No compensation is due for delayed flights to Switzerland or from Switzerland.
Mar 16, 2019, 10:01 am
#19
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Thank you. We’re actually based in Switzerland.
For interest this is Edelweiss final reply in which they totally refuse to recognise the ECJ ruling as valid.
What is odd is that at the airport whilst checking in on the delayed flight, we were given a paper from Edelweiss which details our rights to compensation under EU261......strange????!
For interest this is Edelweiss final reply in which they totally refuse to recognise the ECJ ruling as valid.
What is odd is that at the airport whilst checking in on the delayed flight, we were given a paper from Edelweiss which details our rights to compensation under EU261......strange????!
If i were you I would forward that form to them, ask them to reconsider & then if they rebuff you again, use an agency.
Mar 16, 2019, 3:00 pm
#21
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Mar 16, 2019, 3:47 pm
#23
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I am not a lawyer but by reading the case referred, you may get a feeling if WK is blowing smoke or not.
Mar 16, 2019, 8:54 pm
#24
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However OP would be likely to succeed against WK in a case brought in the Canary Islands.
Mar 17, 2019, 5:03 am
#25
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Okay, to clear up the confusion and summarize the important facts:
There are different versions of EU261 in effect based weither you look at the law in the EU or at the law in Switzerland. The court decision of Bülach was the answer to the question weither EU court rulings on EU261 are to be applied in Switzerland, and their answer was a definitive NO.
All rulings that were made in the EU are NOT applicable in Switzerland. This includes the ruling that a certain delay validates a refund, mechanical defects and weather are not unforwseen events, which are not mentioned in the base EU261 text!
So depending on where you will proceed with the case EU vs Switzerland, you will have vastly different outcomes and chances of success.
Swiss as well as Edelweiss will always try to base them on the Swiss law which is more beneficial to them, however, if you make it clear you will go against them as per EU law (which can be done when you flight has touched EU soil, but can't if it hasn't) in an EU country and an EU court, more pax generous EU law will be applicable, including the part where there are refunds for delays.
There are different versions of EU261 in effect based weither you look at the law in the EU or at the law in Switzerland. The court decision of Bülach was the answer to the question weither EU court rulings on EU261 are to be applied in Switzerland, and their answer was a definitive NO.
All rulings that were made in the EU are NOT applicable in Switzerland. This includes the ruling that a certain delay validates a refund, mechanical defects and weather are not unforwseen events, which are not mentioned in the base EU261 text!
So depending on where you will proceed with the case EU vs Switzerland, you will have vastly different outcomes and chances of success.
Swiss as well as Edelweiss will always try to base them on the Swiss law which is more beneficial to them, however, if you make it clear you will go against them as per EU law (which can be done when you flight has touched EU soil, but can't if it hasn't) in an EU country and an EU court, more pax generous EU law will be applicable, including the part where there are refunds for delays.
Mar 17, 2019, 6:00 am
#26
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Location: Stoke on Trent, UK (MAN ), BUE, BKK, DBV
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Okay, to clear up the confusion and summarize the important facts:
There are different versions of EU261 in effect based weither you look at the law in the EU or at the law in Switzerland. The court decision of Bülach was the answer to the question weither EU court rulings on EU261 are to be applied in Switzerland, and their answer was a definitive NO.
All rulings that were made in the EU are NOT applicable in Switzerland. This includes the ruling that a certain delay validates a refund, mechanical defects and weather are not unforwseen events, which are not mentioned in the base EU261 text!
So depending on where you will proceed with the case EU vs Switzerland, you will have vastly different outcomes and chances of success.
Swiss as well as Edelweiss will always try to base them on the Swiss law which is more beneficial to them, however, if you make it clear you will go against them as per EU law (which can be done when you flight has touched EU soil, but can't if it hasn't) in an EU country and an EU court, more pax generous EU law will be applicable, including the part where there are refunds for delays.
There are different versions of EU261 in effect based weither you look at the law in the EU or at the law in Switzerland. The court decision of Bülach was the answer to the question weither EU court rulings on EU261 are to be applied in Switzerland, and their answer was a definitive NO.
All rulings that were made in the EU are NOT applicable in Switzerland. This includes the ruling that a certain delay validates a refund, mechanical defects and weather are not unforwseen events, which are not mentioned in the base EU261 text!
So depending on where you will proceed with the case EU vs Switzerland, you will have vastly different outcomes and chances of success.
Swiss as well as Edelweiss will always try to base them on the Swiss law which is more beneficial to them, however, if you make it clear you will go against them as per EU law (which can be done when you flight has touched EU soil, but can't if it hasn't) in an EU country and an EU court, more pax generous EU law will be applicable, including the part where there are refunds for delays.
So, the OP has excellent chances of success since they were stranded in Canary Islands which does fall under EU261
ECJ judgements ?
Mar 17, 2019, 6:19 am
#27
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............There are different versions of EU261 in effect based weither you look at the law in the EU or at the law in Switzerland. The court decision of Bülach was the answer to the question weither EU court rulings on EU261 are to be applied in Switzerland, and their answer was a definitive NO...........
Mar 17, 2019, 9:51 am
#28
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Or an agency, as a last resort because of their fees or inconvenience to the OP
Mar 17, 2019, 3:13 pm
#29
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks so much to everyone for all your input and help.
I have gone back to Edelweiss and explained that I will proceed with court action in Spain. I am prepared to request a final time that they reconsider before I take it further.
I am looking to use an agency despite the costs. 50-75% of the compensation we’d hopefully receive is better than 0% if we don’t bother. It’s also become a point of principle for me now - such terrible customer service and absolutely no recognition of the inconvenience and impact such a long delay has on customers!
I have gone back to Edelweiss and explained that I will proceed with court action in Spain. I am prepared to request a final time that they reconsider before I take it further.
I am looking to use an agency despite the costs. 50-75% of the compensation we’d hopefully receive is better than 0% if we don’t bother. It’s also become a point of principle for me now - such terrible customer service and absolutely no recognition of the inconvenience and impact such a long delay has on customers!
Mar 17, 2019, 5:08 pm
#30
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Posts: 3,151
Thank you
(But I’m not actually a lawyer, my dad is, if that helps.)