LX reducing available F seats on A330 for crew rest

Old Aug 30, 18, 5:39 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: A3*G
Posts: 108
LX reducing available F seats on A330 for crew rest

Originally Posted by DFB_london View Post
(Just beware Swiss long haul F though: they have tendency to ‘cancel’ F cabins at very short notice on the A330 fleet so the crew can rest.)
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30139992-post3.html

Posting this here as I've nabbed F seats during the ongoing fantastic ex-LON sale and am slightly concerned, hence wanted the opinions of this forum. I know that LX block 1D for crew rest, and I also know that LX are quite protective of the F cabin if it's empty - but I don't believe LX would cancel any F tickets and send F out empty (to enable the crew to rest or for any other reason). Surely, besides the legal implications that would be a PR disaster for LX. Also, nothing at all on this on the interweb.

Thoughts?
ObserverA3 is offline  
Old Aug 30, 18, 7:30 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: ZRH / YUL
Programs: UA, TK , Starwood > Marriott
Posts: 6,392
This lacks context:

LX has certain fleet constraints during the refurbishment / replacement process of the A340. While some of the A340 are on the ground, certain flights have to be operated by A330 which do not have crew rest areas.

In such cases, on flights long enough to warrant crew rest, some F seats are blocked off from sales inventory to serve as crew rests.

Now, in the case of aircraft switches A340/B777 => A330 on short notice, it is occasionally possible that a fully booked F cabin needs to accomodate crew rest, which can lead to involuntary downgrades or rebookings.

There is zero intention to "cancel cabins" on A330 for crew rest more broadly.
Edvard likes this.
airoli is offline  
Old Aug 30, 18, 8:38 am
  #3  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: A3*G
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by airoli View Post
This lacks context:

LX has certain fleet constraints during the refurbishment / replacement process of the A340. While some of the A340 are on the ground, certain flights have to be operated by A330 which do not have crew rest areas.

In such cases, on flights long enough to warrant crew rest, some F seats are blocked off from sales inventory to serve as crew rests.

Now, in the case of aircraft switches A340/B777 => A330 on short notice, it is occasionally possible that a fully booked F cabin needs to accomodate crew rest, which can lead to involuntary downgrades or rebookings.

There is zero intention to "cancel cabins" on A330 for crew rest more broadly.
Thanks for clarifying - this makes sense, and I feel a lot better now :-).
ObserverA3 is offline  
Old Sep 2, 18, 12:51 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 379
I notice 2G on my upcoming 77W F flight is blocked (not just occupied but blocked as per EF). Is this also for crew rest?
I looked up another random date and 2G also blocked, so I guess its usual.
But since 77W is supposed to have proper crew rests, is it blocked for crew or bassinet?
rosenkavalier is offline  
Old Sep 3, 18, 7:10 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Programs: LXFF
Posts: 242
There have always been one or two blocked off seats in F. Look at seats maps 12 months out. There is a pattern of blocked seats. You can purchase 8 seats on the empty cabin but it still shows a blocked seat or two... never really understood why.
ced_lx is offline  
Old Sep 3, 18, 2:32 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: LH SENATOR
Posts: 734
The only routes LX is blocking one seat for Pilot Crew rest in F on flights operated by Airbus A330 are flights operated by this aircraft to JNB and PEK, as far as I know this is seat 2K. During the upcoming winter timetable cetain flights to PVG will also be operated by A330 and due to the lenght of the flight, all crew members are entitled to proper crew rest areas, hence when this aircraft is used on this route no F will be available as the whole cabin will be used as crew rest
bawm likes this.
LXA350 is offline  
Old Sep 3, 18, 2:56 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: ST E+, *G, some hotel gold...
Posts: 2,155
Originally Posted by ced_lx View Post
There have always been one or two blocked off seats in F. Look at seats maps 12 months out. There is a pattern of blocked seats. You can purchase 8 seats on the empty cabin but it still shows a blocked seat or two... never really understood why.
Bassinet seat?
Fabo.sk is offline  
Old Sep 4, 18, 5:48 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 379
Originally Posted by LXA350 View Post
The only routes LX is blocking one seat for Pilot Crew rest in F on flights operated by Airbus A330 are flights operated by this aircraft to JNB and PEK, as far as I know this is seat 2K. During the upcoming winter timetable cetain flights to PVG will also be operated by A330 and due to the lenght of the flight, all crew members are entitled to proper crew rest areas, hence when this aircraft is used on this route no F will be available as the whole cabin will be used as crew rest
wow, didn't know that about the PVG flights. you are right, just looked at the website, and indeed, all A343 flights are selling F but all A330 flights are not selling F.
Isn't that a huge loss of revenue? especially I imagine PVG has the potential to bring in some premium traffic? And why do they need the whole F cabin for crew? I assume you mean flight crew, there are never more than 3-4 on a flight. They could still sell F4 on those flights?

This also brings up the whole question of whether C is sufficient for crew rest now that its flat bed. They could block of a set of seats with curtains around it to provide privacy, like on many other aircraft/airlines where there is no F.
rosenkavalier is offline  
Old Sep 4, 18, 7:22 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: ZRH / YUL
Programs: UA, TK , Starwood > Marriott
Posts: 6,392
Originally Posted by rosenkavalier View Post
Isn't that a huge loss of revenue? especially I imagine PVG has the potential to bring in some premium traffic?
Not as much as not operating the flight for lack of aircraft.
And why do they need the whole F cabin for crew?
Cockpit and cabin crew both require rest on PVG flight block time.

This also brings up the whole question of whether C is sufficient for crew rest now that its flat bed.
The C cabin is the most profitable cabin on a long-haul flight so you want to keep that capacity open.
airoli is offline  
Old Sep 4, 18, 1:45 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 379
Originally Posted by airoli View Post
Not as much as not operating the flight for lack of aircraft.
Cockpit and cabin crew both require rest on PVG flight block time.

The C cabin is the most profitable cabin on a long-haul flight so you want to keep that capacity open.
I see your point that the C cabin is most profitable so letting flight crew sleep in F might actually minimize the dent in revenue, however is it really necessary for cabin crew to rest in F? Most airlines reserve Y seats with curtain for cabin crew to rest, never seen them entitled to the F cabin. Seems a little over the top. (don't know the union/management relationship at LX...)
Also on the point of F vs. C, as an armchair revenue manager, I would still try to put flight crew in C and overbook C, put half of the F cabin up for sale/awards (selling even one or two seats is better than nothing), and op-up HON/SENs from overbooked C to F on the day (prudent not to underestimate the goodwill/loyalty effect with your most valued pax).
This way, you managed or at least tried to sell a few F seats, your flight crew still have a flat bed in C, you sold a full C cabin and a few HON/SEN pax are happy with their op-up which will translate into reinforced loyalty to LX/LH Group.
rosenkavalier is offline  
Old Sep 4, 18, 3:02 pm
  #11  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: ZRH / YUL
Programs: UA, TK , Starwood > Marriott
Posts: 6,392
If I were a revenue manager with a free hand, I'd do the same as you.

However, while I am not familiar with the intricate details of the LX agreements regarding crew rest, I suspect that there is something about acceptable rest areas being dark quiet zones, such as the dedicated crew rests on properly equiped planes. A dedicated cabin easily qualifies.

As an aside, there will also be savings from not having to provision any F catering at all.
airoli is offline  
Old Sep 5, 18, 5:52 am
  #12  
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, External Miles & Points Resources
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 37,073
And they can work with lower cabin crew numbers as they don't have to serve F with two dedicated FAs.
oliver2002 is online now  
Old Sep 5, 18, 6:11 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: ZRH / YUL
Programs: UA, TK , Starwood > Marriott
Posts: 6,392
Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
And they can work with lower cabin crew numbers as they don't have to serve F with two dedicated FAs.
Aren't they already at the legal minimum of FAs for the # of seats on the aircraft?
airoli is offline  
Old Sep 5, 18, 6:23 am
  #14  
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, External Miles & Points Resources
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 37,073
LX loves to keep it as tight as possible. I doubt they only have one FA/50 seats on longhaul
oliver2002 is online now  
Old Dec 20, 18, 12:38 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 349
My travel agent just contacted me and said that Swiss have closed F (bought in the recent ex-LON sale) on my flight from Shanghai for crew rest and would I want to be rebooked onto Lufthansa instead.

Not it sure of the compensation here. Flight is in April 2019.

Flight out is to Beijing so F still OK on Swiss.

Thanks

Annoying.
BlueHorizonUK is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread