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-   -   LX reducing available F seats on A330 for crew rest (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/swiss-international-air-lines/1928048-lx-reducing-available-f-seats-a330-crew-rest.html)

ObserverA3 Aug 30, 18 5:39 am

LX reducing available F seats on A330 for crew rest
 

Originally Posted by DFB_london (Post 30139992)
(Just beware Swiss long haul F though: they have tendency to ‘cancel’ F cabins at very short notice on the A330 fleet so the crew can rest.)

Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30139992-post3.html

Posting this here as I've nabbed F seats during the ongoing fantastic ex-LON sale and am slightly concerned, hence wanted the opinions of this forum. I know that LX block 1D for crew rest, and I also know that LX are quite protective of the F cabin if it's empty - but I don't believe LX would cancel any F tickets and send F out empty (to enable the crew to rest or for any other reason). Surely, besides the legal implications that would be a PR disaster for LX. Also, nothing at all on this on the interweb.

Thoughts?

airoli Aug 30, 18 7:30 am

This lacks context:

LX has certain fleet constraints during the refurbishment / replacement process of the A340. While some of the A340 are on the ground, certain flights have to be operated by A330 which do not have crew rest areas.

In such cases, on flights long enough to warrant crew rest, some F seats are blocked off from sales inventory to serve as crew rests.

Now, in the case of aircraft switches A340/B777 => A330 on short notice, it is occasionally possible that a fully booked F cabin needs to accomodate crew rest, which can lead to involuntary downgrades or rebookings.

There is zero intention to "cancel cabins" on A330 for crew rest more broadly.

ObserverA3 Aug 30, 18 8:38 am


Originally Posted by airoli (Post 30147765)
This lacks context:

LX has certain fleet constraints during the refurbishment / replacement process of the A340. While some of the A340 are on the ground, certain flights have to be operated by A330 which do not have crew rest areas.

In such cases, on flights long enough to warrant crew rest, some F seats are blocked off from sales inventory to serve as crew rests.

Now, in the case of aircraft switches A340/B777 => A330 on short notice, it is occasionally possible that a fully booked F cabin needs to accomodate crew rest, which can lead to involuntary downgrades or rebookings.

There is zero intention to "cancel cabins" on A330 for crew rest more broadly.

Thanks for clarifying - this makes sense, and I feel a lot better now :-).

rosenkavalier Sep 2, 18 12:51 am

I notice 2G on my upcoming 77W F flight is blocked (not just occupied but blocked as per EF). Is this also for crew rest?
I looked up another random date and 2G also blocked, so I guess its usual.
But since 77W is supposed to have proper crew rests, is it blocked for crew or bassinet?

ced_lx Sep 3, 18 7:10 am

There have always been one or two blocked off seats in F. Look at seats maps 12 months out. There is a pattern of blocked seats. You can purchase 8 seats on the empty cabin but it still shows a blocked seat or two... never really understood why.

LXA350 Sep 3, 18 2:32 pm

The only routes LX is blocking one seat for Pilot Crew rest in F on flights operated by Airbus A330 are flights operated by this aircraft to JNB and PEK, as far as I know this is seat 2K. During the upcoming winter timetable cetain flights to PVG will also be operated by A330 and due to the lenght of the flight, all crew members are entitled to proper crew rest areas, hence when this aircraft is used on this route no F will be available as the whole cabin will be used as crew rest

Fabo.sk Sep 3, 18 2:56 pm


Originally Posted by ced_lx (Post 30161351)
There have always been one or two blocked off seats in F. Look at seats maps 12 months out. There is a pattern of blocked seats. You can purchase 8 seats on the empty cabin but it still shows a blocked seat or two... never really understood why.

Bassinet seat?

rosenkavalier Sep 4, 18 5:48 am


Originally Posted by LXA350 (Post 30162882)
The only routes LX is blocking one seat for Pilot Crew rest in F on flights operated by Airbus A330 are flights operated by this aircraft to JNB and PEK, as far as I know this is seat 2K. During the upcoming winter timetable cetain flights to PVG will also be operated by A330 and due to the lenght of the flight, all crew members are entitled to proper crew rest areas, hence when this aircraft is used on this route no F will be available as the whole cabin will be used as crew rest

wow, didn't know that about the PVG flights. you are right, just looked at the website, and indeed, all A343 flights are selling F but all A330 flights are not selling F.
Isn't that a huge loss of revenue? especially I imagine PVG has the potential to bring in some premium traffic? And why do they need the whole F cabin for crew? I assume you mean flight crew, there are never more than 3-4 on a flight. They could still sell F4 on those flights?

This also brings up the whole question of whether C is sufficient for crew rest now that its flat bed. They could block of a set of seats with curtains around it to provide privacy, like on many other aircraft/airlines where there is no F.

airoli Sep 4, 18 7:22 am


Originally Posted by rosenkavalier (Post 30164989)
Isn't that a huge loss of revenue? especially I imagine PVG has the potential to bring in some premium traffic?

Not as much as not operating the flight for lack of aircraft.

And why do they need the whole F cabin for crew?
Cockpit and cabin crew both require rest on PVG flight block time.


This also brings up the whole question of whether C is sufficient for crew rest now that its flat bed.
The C cabin is the most profitable cabin on a long-haul flight so you want to keep that capacity open.

rosenkavalier Sep 4, 18 1:45 pm


Originally Posted by airoli (Post 30165293)
Not as much as not operating the flight for lack of aircraft.
Cockpit and cabin crew both require rest on PVG flight block time.

The C cabin is the most profitable cabin on a long-haul flight so you want to keep that capacity open.

I see your point that the C cabin is most profitable so letting flight crew sleep in F might actually minimize the dent in revenue, however is it really necessary for cabin crew to rest in F? Most airlines reserve Y seats with curtain for cabin crew to rest, never seen them entitled to the F cabin. Seems a little over the top. (don't know the union/management relationship at LX...)
Also on the point of F vs. C, as an armchair revenue manager, I would still try to put flight crew in C and overbook C, put half of the F cabin up for sale/awards (selling even one or two seats is better than nothing), and op-up HON/SENs from overbooked C to F on the day (prudent not to underestimate the goodwill/loyalty effect with your most valued pax).
This way, you managed or at least tried to sell a few F seats, your flight crew still have a flat bed in C, you sold a full C cabin and a few HON/SEN pax are happy with their op-up which will translate into reinforced loyalty to LX/LH Group.

airoli Sep 4, 18 3:02 pm

If I were a revenue manager with a free hand, I'd do the same as you.

However, while I am not familiar with the intricate details of the LX agreements regarding crew rest, I suspect that there is something about acceptable rest areas being dark quiet zones, such as the dedicated crew rests on properly equiped planes. A dedicated cabin easily qualifies.

As an aside, there will also be savings from not having to provision any F catering at all.

oliver2002 Sep 5, 18 5:52 am

And they can work with lower cabin crew numbers as they don't have to serve F with two dedicated FAs.

airoli Sep 5, 18 6:11 am


Originally Posted by oliver2002 (Post 30169402)
And they can work with lower cabin crew numbers as they don't have to serve F with two dedicated FAs.

Aren't they already at the legal minimum of FAs for the # of seats on the aircraft?

oliver2002 Sep 5, 18 6:23 am

LX loves to keep it as tight as possible. I doubt they only have one FA/50 seats on longhaul ;)

BlueHorizonUK Dec 20, 18 12:38 am

My travel agent just contacted me and said that Swiss have closed F (bought in the recent ex-LON sale) on my flight from Shanghai for crew rest and would I want to be rebooked onto Lufthansa instead.

Not it sure of the compensation here. Flight is in April 2019.

Flight out is to Beijing so F still OK on Swiss.

Thanks

Annoying.


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