Locked in transit zone at ZHR

Old May 31, 2018, 8:33 pm
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Locked in transit zone at ZHR

My friends who do not speak English were flying today LHR-ZHR-DME on Swiss, but their journey started in LAX the day before on United.

The first flight in Europe from LHR was delayed which caused missing connection. Flight LX325 arrived around 9.30 pm to Zurich. Noone assisted them and customs left and now they are literally locked in the transit zone. There was one rep from the hotel that I spoke with, he tried calling Swiss in the aiport but they could care less and did not pick up the phone.

I started calling US number - and after awhile was able to rebook them. But they are spending 15 hrs at the airport. They were given a number in Switzerland which led to the same customer service but in different country - South Africa. Swiss rep was arrogant and stated that it is passengers fault?! for missing connection and not being able to go thru customs and hung up!!!!

reps that were trying to assist were in Fiji. Gave me number to ZHR, called it but security stated they are indeed closed!
That is despicable - to hold 3 people hostage in transit zone without even acknowleding their existence, w/o food and water and w/o accomodation (they could not go to the hotel in transit zone as it was "sold out" - probably other passengers were accomodated there).

What compensation can they seek at this point?
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Old May 31, 2018, 9:41 pm
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I would like to copy my thread in here. I really hope Swiss Lurker is still around and would be able to assist.
My friends who do not speak English were flying today LHR-ZHR-DME on Swiss, but their journey started in LAX the day before on United.

The first flight in Europe from LHR was delayed which caused missing connection. Flight LX325 arrived around 9.30 pm to Zurich. Noone assisted them and customs left and now they are literally locked in the transit zone. There was one rep from the hotel that I spoke with, he tried calling Swiss in the aiport but they could care less and did not pick up the phone.

I started calling US number - and after awhile was able to rebook them. But they are spending 15 hrs at the airport. They were given a number in Switzerland which led to the same customer service but in different country - South Africa. Swiss rep was arrogant and stated that it is passengers fault?! for missing connection and not being able to go thru customs and hung up!!!!

reps that were trying to assist were in Fiji. Gave me number to ZHR, called it but security stated they are indeed closed!
That is despicable - to hold 3 people hostage in transit zone without even acknowleding their existence, w/o food and water and w/o accomodation (they could not go to the hotel in transit zone as it was "sold out" - probably other passengers were accomodated there).

How will Swiss Airlines compensate for putting the passengers thru this?

Thank You
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Old May 31, 2018, 11:19 pm
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It is 7.15 am in Zurich and it has been 45 minutes since my friends are waiting for the lounge staff to decide whether to let them in or not! And that is contrary to what Customer Service promised me on the phone that at least at 6 am standed passengers will be allowed inside the lounge to wait for another remaining 6 hrs after already spending 8 hrs.
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Old Jun 1, 2018, 1:26 am
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That sounds like a poor experience, and I am sorry for your friends' trouble. Clearly, LX could have been more helpful.

But let me get one thing straight: Your friends to not speak English (nor, presumably, German or French?) and do not have paperwork to enter Schengen space. And yet they decide to go from California to Russia by flying LAX-LHR-ZRH-DME ? That is just asking for trouble. At any stage of this journey, things can go wrong due to IRROPS.

Why didn't they go straight to Russia, e.g. LAX-JFK-SVO?
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Old Jun 1, 2018, 2:55 am
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Originally Posted by ellylex
My friends who do not speak English were flying today LHR-ZHR-DME on Swiss, but their journey started in LAX the day before on United.

The first flight in Europe from LHR was delayed which caused missing connection. Flight LX325 arrived around 9.30 pm to Zurich. Noone assisted them and customs left and now they are literally locked in the transit zone. There was one rep from the hotel that I spoke with, he tried calling Swiss in the aiport but they could care less and did not pick up the phone.
Customs are open until 23:00 (they are open longer as far as I know) at which point the airport will close at which point no passenger should still be in the airport (exception transit hotel).
1.5 hours to go through customs in Zurich at this time is more than enough, unless you have no visa to actually enter the shengen zone. (They seemed to have been allowed into the UK?)
But since they would have a flight to catch to DME they would not need to go through customs at all. I checked and the flight to DME (LX1324) was sheduled for 21:45 (31.05.18) yet was delayed and departed at 23:12 from gate D36: LX325 landed at 21:48 in ZRH and arrived at Gate D32? (literally the gate next to D36!) or a remote stand next to it(could you ask if they arrived directly at the terminal or were driven by bus?):
More than enough time to catch it.
I suspect with the given information that your friends probably did not know how to communicate with the staff and therefore missed their connection. (Only english and german signs)

Originally Posted by ellylex
I started calling US number - and after awhile was able to rebook them. But they are spending 15 hrs at the airport. They were given a number in Switzerland which led to the same customer service but in different country - South Africa. Swiss rep was arrogant and stated that it is passengers fault?! for missing connection and not being able to go thru customs and hung up!!!!

reps that were trying to assist were in Fiji. Gave me number to ZHR, called it but security stated they are indeed closed!
That is despicable - to hold 3 people hostage in transit zone without even acknowleding their existence, w/o food and water and w/o accomodation (they could not go to the hotel in transit zone as it was "sold out" - probably other passengers were accomodated there).
Now I don't think I know enough about this case (Nationality? Are they allowed to enter the shengen zone without Visa? Do they have a Visa? How bad is communication? What language do they speak? Were the flights on one ticket? etc.)
But as mentioned above between 23:00 and 05:00 the airport is closed.

Originally Posted by ellylex
What compensation can they seek at this point?
None. (The LHR-ZRH flight was delayed by only 1 hour and 53 minutes, compensation is due with 3 hours or longer and the missed connections seems to be entirely their fault.)
You should still try though and maybe (I don't think so) they will be helpful.

Are they still in ZRH? Or have they been able to continue their journey?

Last edited by Nick Art; Jun 1, 2018 at 3:13 am
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Old Jun 1, 2018, 1:13 pm
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Hi ellylex

Since the lurker seems to be temporarily (or permanently?) unavailable, let me try to help you on your questions. Hope you don't mind. LX on Facebook usually don't mind

Originally Posted by ellylex
I would like to copy my thread in here. I really hope Swiss Lurker is still around and would be able to assist.
My friends who do not speak English were flying today LHR-ZHR-DME on Swiss, but their journey started in LAX the day before on United.
You say they don't speak English. Is there any other common European language they do speak, like German, French, Spanish, Italian? I can only assume that if you're not able to communicate at all with any staff, things might become very difficult if things go wrong (as they apparently did) - since the language barrier will be rather difficult to cross, which appears is what happened here. But let me try to elaborate further down.


Originally Posted by ellylex
The first flight in Europe from LHR was delayed which caused missing connection. Flight LX325 arrived around 9.30 pm to Zurich. Noone assisted them and customs left and now they are literally locked in the transit zone. There was one rep from the hotel that I spoke with, he tried calling Swiss in the aiport but they could care less and did not pick up the phone.
They weren't hold up at customs, but possibly by immigration. Which they never actually should have go through for a connection from Non-Schengen (UK) to Non-Schengen (Russia) country. At least till 11pm (and from 5am onward) there is always immigration counters open. When there are irrops (like the last 2 days), possibly much longer. No one is "locked in", unless they simply can't get out of the Non-Schengen zone due to having no valid papers to do so. Back to the details of your case:

LX325 indeed only arrived at 9.53pm yesterday (31st May) - with LX1324 being scheduled at 9.45pm.

BUT.. Here is the major catch. LX1324 actually only departed at 10.49pm, making the connection entirely possible. LX often intentionally delays their late evening departures, since many flights bringing in passengers to ZRH are delayed (LX has extremely tight turnaround times, which often causes delays to build up during busy days, and causing LX to have a not-so-stellar on-time record. Regular delay for LX325 is 20-40min, according to Flightstats. But lets get back to topic..)

Since apparently according to LX's data, the connection should have been made by your friends, they simply didn't had them on the radar, and wouldn't really advise staff on having anything prepared. Could you please elaborate what exactly happened? Were they not going to the gate shown on the screens? Were the screens actually showing the LX1324 flight to have been departed already? I think it's important to get their side of the story on what happened on the ground after arrival.

The flight to DME took off from the D Gates, and often UK-arrivals also use D Gates, which would have made the transport as easy as pie, even on very tight connections.

Originally Posted by ellylex
I started calling US number - and after awhile was able to rebook them. But they are spending 15 hrs at the airport. They were given a number in Switzerland which led to the same customer service but in different country - South Africa. Swiss rep was arrogant and stated that it is passengers fault?! for missing connection and not being able to go thru customs and hung up!!!!
Well, apparently the agent saw the same data that I was able to pull up from free internet sources, that the connection was perfectly possible, with about 1hr from arrival to departure, and therefore considered the passengers as no-shows (ie, the ticket would need to be re-issued)

As a rule of thumb, calling in a call center, especially for a friend (they're not really authorized to do changes unless it's their travel agent or someone from the group calling themselves, in my experience) is ALWAYS inferior that to contact staff at the airport, due to them basically having no idea on whats really going on at the ground. Well, considering I was nearby ZRH airport yesterday evening, I can give you an insight (something that neither you as the caller, nor the call center agent, who isn't in ZRH either, could, only your friends at the airport (and local staff) could.

There was massive rain / hail just over the airport area, for the second day in a row. So strong all operations had to be stopped for approx 30 minutes. As you can imagine, this cause quite some chaos, and LOTS of calls to Swiss as well. Not a surprise that you've had trouble reaching anyone.

Originally Posted by ellylex
reps that were trying to assist were in Fiji. Gave me number to ZHR, called it but security stated they are indeed closed!
Well, outside business hours, the calls indeed are taken by off-site callcenters (actually, forget about talking to a person in Switzerland on the hotline unless you're a higher-up tier in their FFP, and even then..) - and ZRH is closed overnight customer service hotline related. It's not a true 24hrs airport, after all.


Originally Posted by ellylex
That is despicable - to hold 3 people hostage in transit zone without even acknowleding their existence, w/o food and water and w/o accomodation (they could not go to the hotel in transit zone as it was "sold out" - probably other passengers were accomodated there).
Lets keep some facts straight: Your friends apparently lacked allowance to enter the Schengen area. This has nothing to do with Swiss. At this time of the day, also no "special arrangements" could be done (this sometimes happens, Swiss immigration is a bit less strict than German ones, who are not letting ANYONE in, no matter what - but at 10pm+ in the evening, that was simply too late to organize), and considering LX basically thought your friends could have made the connection, they weren't even ready to prepare anything in advance.

The transit hotel is small (Overnight transit for passengers not able to enter Schengen is NOT the main design of ZRH airport) - having it sold out when bad weather hits ZRH - twice in two days - is completely normal.

There are 24hrs available food dispensers, and Swiss tab water is perfectly drinkable, too. They were definitely not let without access to food and water.

Originally Posted by ellylex
How will Swiss Airlines compensate for putting the passengers thru this?

Thank You
They'll not get much out of this. IF the connection was impossible to make (due to actually the departing aircraft's gate having been closed earlier than what the data I've access to suggest) then LX owns them duty of care. IE, to pay for expenses they had for food, phone calls.. no cash compensation, since ZRH airport was hit by bad weather (and yes, it was really bad, this will NOT be one of the many cases where LX weasels out of having to pay compensation putting weather in front - it was really weather)

If it was their fault - ie they had to make an easy transfer but were too slow doing so (say, doors open at 10pm, gate closure at 10.30pm, both a D gates) then they were lucky to actually having been rebooked for free, and not having had their whole ticket to be re-issued.

Basically I'd be interested in knowing which arrival gate they had (D or E gates) - and what they actually did when they exited the aircraft, where they went etc. - that's quite crucial in understanding about what happened on ground.

Originally Posted by ellylex
It is 7.15 am in Zurich and it has been 45 minutes since my friends are waiting for the lounge staff to decide whether to let them in or not! And that is contrary to what Customer Service promised me on the phone that at least at 6 am standed passengers will be allowed inside the lounge to wait for another remaining 6 hrs after already spending 8 hrs.
Lounge staff isn't allowed to let in pax due to long layovers unless advised to do so. I've experienced similar requests by pax, and they were usually sent away (guested some in, whenever I could help people who really looked like they could need it, though)

Pax having missed their flights are usually (besides a new boarding pass) given a voucher for food at an airport restaurant / caf. Did this not happen?

Last edited by YuropFlyer; Jun 1, 2018 at 2:27 pm
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Old Jun 1, 2018, 5:20 pm
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Thank You for replying.

It is not their fault for missing the connection. Even Swiss did not make such a ridiculous comment except one arrogant customer service agent from South Africa.

It was one ticket, they were in the UK as You have assumed, they transited thru UK as well.

They followed instructions to go to Transfer Desk given during the flight, but noone told them that it is in different terminal (E) and there is a passport control. Other passengers apparently had Shengen visas and were able to go thru, while my friends - were stopped. There were NO SWISS agents at the terminal D to assist them and passport control agents could care less. Everyone quickly left the Terminal D and airport was "closed".

They have spent 15 hours at the airport. You are the only one who thinks otherwise.

Thank You for your input.
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Old Jun 1, 2018, 5:28 pm
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Originally Posted by airoli
That sounds like a poor experience, and I am sorry for your friends' trouble. Clearly, LX could have been more helpful.

Why didn't they go straight to Russia, e.g. LAX-JFK-SVO?
Thank You.

I am asking about compensation while You are inquiring why they bought such ticket. If You asked me - I certainly wouldn't have done such routing. But it is irrelevant at this point - that was the routing on their ticket.

By the way, there is a nonstop LAX-SVO, so I do not get it why one would get a routing via JFK?!

Anyway, I have a different question but unfortunately the discussion always shifts to irrelevant issues.
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Old Jun 1, 2018, 5:36 pm
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Originally Posted by Nick Art
Are they still in ZRH? Or have they been able to continue their journey?
I rebooked them on the next nonstop flight at 12.20 pm on June 1. They spent 15 hours at the airport.
Now they are at home.

It was poor organization on Swiss part combined with late arrival. If this occured during the day - situation would have been easily resolved. But there was noone in sight from Swiss in Terminal D. Everyone left.
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Old Jun 1, 2018, 5:46 pm
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Originally Posted by ellylex
They followed instructions to go to Transfer Desk given during the flight, but no one told them that it is in different terminal (E) and there is a passport control. Other passengers apparently had Shengen visas and were able to go thru, while my friends - were stopped.
It was poor organization on Swiss part combined with late arrival. If this occured during the day - situation would have been easily resolved. But there was noone in sight from Swiss in Terminal D. Everyone left
Information on gates/terminals is usually on tickets. Hard copy prints are always useful. Screens usually shows airlines/gates.
Planning & preparation for airports transits is useful.

It is always the passengers responsibility to ensure they have the correct visa's and understand the entry conditions to various countries on the trip.

What was the full route/airlines and what passports do they hold?
Guessing UK was an airside transit.
Are the people familiar with travel?
What language do they speak?

They may be eligible for EC261-2004 compensation, but that will not cover there own visa problems.
Is not uncommon for people to be caught by Schengen visa issues.
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Old Jun 1, 2018, 5:57 pm
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YuropFlyer,

I certainly appreciate Your input. But You made wrong assumptions (contrary to the facts I mentioned) and thus reached wrong conclusions.

It was NOT passengers fault for missing the connection. There was an announcement during the flight to ZHR for people transiting to a list of cities to go to Transfer Desk upon arrival. Moscow was on the list. Passengers understood and followed the instructions: followed signs to Transfer Desk which led them to Passport Control. Noone has mentioned that it is in Terminal E and one needs Shengen Visa to go from Terminal D to E. They were stopped. Others went thru. And there was noone left.

How can one have communication problem if there is NOONE to communicate with?! If there was a Swiss rep there - the issue would have been resolved. The only person trying to help was some guy from transit hotel. I spoke to him over the phone. He also tried to reach Swiss at the airport but everyone was gone. Transit hotel was full.

I am complaining that passengers were left/locked in transit zone w/o assistance and You are suggesting they received vouchers. Of course, NOT. There was NOONE there. Eveyone was gone.

On their flight to Moscow, after 15 hr wait, they found out what happened to other passengers who missed their flight. They were met by SWISS at Transfer Desk in Terminal E and were given hotel accomodations at least. The rest I do not know.
Noone was at terminal D to assist. It is a fact!

And when I say passengers do not speak English - it was meant to explain why I was calling on their behalf and that they cannot speak in sentences. They are able to communicate when necessary. Phones have translators after all. But one cannot communicate when there is noone to communicate with. They were able to comminucate with transit hotel rep - he understood the issue.
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Old Jun 1, 2018, 7:22 pm
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Let me answer here to your posting from the LX lurker thread ( https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29819231-post1979.html ) so to keep everything in one place:

Originally Posted by ellylex
It was NOT passengers fault for missing the connection. There was an announcement during the flight to ZHR for people transiting to a list of cities to go to Transfer Desk upon arrival. Moscow was on the list. Passengers understood and followed the instructions: followed signs to Transfer Desk which led them to Passport Control. Noone has mentioned that it is in Terminal E and one needs Shengen Visa to go from Terminal D to E. They were stopped. Others went thru. And there was noone left.
Sorry to say so, but your statement makes me wondering even more. I'm very familiar with the setup of ZRH airport, thus a few things just don't add up..

The flight your friends were on from London arrived at Gate D area. The flight to Moscow departed from Gate D area - literally meters away, and with the delay on the Moscow flight, there was at least 30min to make the transfer - more than enough to walk through Terminal D in it's entire length about 10 times.

My assumption therefore is: The message while on board from London to ZRH was wrong (actually, I'd NEVER EVER trust any kind of onboard message regarding gates, on any airline.. ALWAYS check your gate number at the airport when deplaning first, especially when you're in a hurry and/or at an airport unknown to you)

Your friends somehow understood "Go to Terminal E no matter what for Transfer Desk", while it was probably something along "Go to Terminal E for connecting flights and transfer" - most long haul flights in the evening depart from Terminal E - Moscow as short haul is the exemption that usually departs from D.

Transfer from D to E (both Non-Schengen) requires taking the train between the terminals, but does NOT involve passport check / immigration. It does require a security check upon entering the Terminal you're heading to.

What happened - at least from my knowledge about ZRH and the story you've been telling - was that your friends thought they missed their flight to Moscow.

Instead of double-checking (that it was actually waiting for them at the next Gate) they hurried "Transfer" signs. Which was leading them towards Schengen Zone (ie, they headed towards Terminal A / B, not Terminal E)

This is an entirely "possible" transfer, and some FTers are using this method to transfer clean between the two Non-Schengen Terminals. But, since your friends lacked Schengen Visa (or passports allowing them to enter Schengen without Visas) they were - absolutely correctly - denied transfer to Terminal A / B.

The immigration where they were hold up is very nearby the Transfer Hotel in Terminal D.

In fact, there is a Transfer Desk at Terminal D too - no need to head to Terminal E (or A) for their Transfer Desk.

See the PDF with map here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...f-C3JfsxnmooB9

Those that made it through the immigration due to valid Visas towards Terminal A probably then headed further to Terminal E on the "clean" side, passing immigration again, and having flights to places like HKG, SIN, all late-evening departures. Or those actually on missed connections into the Schengen area got accommodation and rebooking done in Terminal A. Anyway, that wasn't what your friends were into..

Originally Posted by ellylex
How can one have communication problem if there is NOONE to communicate with?! If there was a Swiss rep there - the issue would have been resolved. The only person trying to help was some guy from transit hotel. I spoke to him over the phone. He also tried to reach Swiss at the airport but everyone was gone. Transit hotel was full.

I am complaining that passengers were left/locked in transit zone w/o assistance and You are suggesting they received vouchers. Of course, NOT. There was NOONE there. Eveyone was gone.

On their flight to Moscow, after 15 hr wait, they found out what happened to other passengers who missed their flight. They were met by SWISS at Transfer Desk in Terminal E and were given hotel accomodations at least. The rest I do not know.
Noone was at terminal D to assist. It is a fact!

And when I say passengers do not speak English - it was meant to explain why I was calling on their behalf and that they cannot speak in sentences. They are able to communicate when necessary. Phones have translators after all. But one cannot communicate when there is noone to communicate with. They were able to comminucate with transit hotel rep - he understood the issue.
Basically, your friends followed other passengers NOT connecting to Moscow (that connections would have required a 50m walk down Terminal D, not more), then when held up at immigration because of lacking Visas, apparently didn't turned back and checked that their flight was still very much just below them at that point, but rather went to the transit hotel and/or were calling you. And at some point, the flight indeed was closed.

Transfer Desk at D definitely was still open at around 10pm, but they never went to that one from what I can understand from your explanation. Of course there aren't dozens of staff wandering around the airport to look for "lost" passengers. It's the duty of passengers to check for the departure gate, and follow the signs to get there.

Your friends somehow either misunderstood, or believed a message on the aircraft to the bone.

Immigration staff maybe even tried to explain that they're wrong, they need to head back to D departure area, who knows.

About your statement that other passengers received hotel accommodation in Terminal E: Those were either coming from others flights into ZRH landing in Terminal E, or somehow made the D to E direct connection (all Non-Schengen) - I do NOT believe they were coming from the London flight and wanted to go on the same Moscow flight your friends were, because, quite simply, that was a D to D connection, not having anything to do with Terminal E.

Regarding vouchers, well, you can't go to a hotel without access to the Schengen area. So your friends would have been stuck in Non-Schengen area anyway, even if they were to take the direct D to E connection (that they could still take at 10pm)

NOW.. of course it's entirely possible that the Moscow-bound flight was indeed already closed at 9.50pm, when your friends flight arrived, just all the data of it's departure say otherwise, and as other posts here also reported, independently of my posting in the lurker thread, the connection seems to have been entirely possible, and was just next door waiting for your friends.

Swiss will show sympathy for the case of your friends, but that's about all you'll be getting from them. In fact, having rebooked your friends free of charge, seems, all taking into account, already be quite a big favour by them to your friends, all assuming the D to D connection was possible and your friends simply "wandered off".
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Old Jun 1, 2018, 11:07 pm
  #13  
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Originally Posted by Mwenenzi
....
Is not uncommon for people to be caught by Schengen visa issues.
Thank You for replying, but if You read WHAT I wrote You would not be making the statements/asked questions that You did.

They did not need Shengen visa for their route. And what do their tickets (hardcopies) have to do if the delay??? The plane would have landed earlier? I am sorry, but it is tiresome to repeat the same info over and over.
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Old Jun 1, 2018, 11:22 pm
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Originally Posted by YuropFlyer
Let me answer here to your posting from the LX lurker thread ( https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29819231-post1979.html ) so to keep everything in one place:
.....
Thank You for Your investigation and conclusion that passengers absolutely dumb and blind. Your comments are appaulling!

Yet, Swiss admitted to me over the phone that Transfer desk was in Terminal E. I made numerous phonecalls and asked many questions how all of this occurred.

I am not surprised with comments here, yet every time I am hopeful that there would be one person who would reply with an answer to my question. Unfortunately, that did not occur.

The facts are that there was NOONE in Terminal D to assist. The connection was missed because flight was delayed to ZHR. And all of Your speculations how passengers decided to miss connection themselves are absurd, when Swiss isn't denying that.

I am glad that Swiss does have intelligent and decent employees who do not deny the facts contrary to the commentators here.

Thank You again.


PS I am sorry, but it is tiresome and frustrating to rebute nonsense and false conclusions and irrelevant questions.
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Old Jun 2, 2018, 12:05 am
  #15  
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