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-   -   B777-300ER likely to be 10 across (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/swiss-international-air-lines/1473825-b777-300er-likely-10-across.html)

dj_jay_smith Jun 7, 13 5:31 am

B777-300ER likely to be 10 across
 
Some might find this interesting:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...en-across-club


Swiss may have until the end of next year to make a final decision, but it is increasingly likely, according to Swiss CEO Harry Hohmeister, that this quality airline will opt for ten-across (3-4-3) economy seating when its B777-300ERs are delivered.
...

hugolover Jun 7, 13 6:56 am

Its unlikely I'll ever find myself in LX long-haul economy but it does devalue the product. LX sells itself as a premium airline and given the fares ex-CH, the CH public rightly demand a high standard. Its a pity that they want to pursue this strategy.

What's most interesting is the confirmation of FC as 1-2-1 as it is now, but no word on BC, could they change the seating to a similar set-up like UA? 2-4-2 IIRC?

Its also interesting that LX see life in FC when some airlines are cutting back like EK.

ex-koelner Jun 7, 13 11:49 am

I did looked forward to the 777 at LX, but as someone who flies longhaul mostly in Y it's a reason not to fly the upcoming LX B777.
I do understand that first class and economy is a whole different market, but Hohmeisters statement

Swiss wants a top class product to meet the specific needs of its local wealthy market
applies to all classes not only F. Especially in Switzerland they should understand that they won't be successful if they become cheap and cheaper all the time, but only if they become better.

verve Jun 7, 13 3:28 pm

Another brilliant decision to drive traffic towards the Gulf carriers. Especially given the fact that EK seems to understand the Swiss market much better than LX and decided to deploy an A380 and 777W starting early next year.
LH/LX can complain a lot about EK et al. but as long as they actively drive customers towards them I have zero empathy for them....

curt Jun 7, 13 3:45 pm


Originally Posted by verve (Post 20883918)
Another brilliant decision to drive traffic towards the Gulf carriers. Especially given the fact that EK seems to understand the Swiss market much better than LX and decided to deploy an A380 and 777W starting early next year.
LH/LX can complain a lot about EK et al. but as long as they actively drive customers towards them I have zero empathy for them....

EK has a 3-4-3 setup in Y on all 777 IIRC...:confused: what would then be the difference?

verve Jun 7, 13 4:09 pm

agreed re EK, QR on the other hand has 9 across. And looking at seat pitches: 34' on EK vs 30' on OS seems to be a clear message. I don't have to worry since I never would fly Y on a longhaul flight but I seriously worry that LX will loose its home market....

oliver2002 Jun 7, 13 9:51 pm

LXs Y product is nothing stellar right now, but still compares to EK. LX will get a new F for the 77W since the A330 F is no longer an option due to the bad performance of the supplier. I would expect the current C product to be installed in the 77W, OS already customised it for the 772.

pilatusguy Jun 8, 13 3:52 am

Personally I find 10 abreast not that bad and never had any issues with space. But then I have never flown 10 abreast on a TATL route where some of the people probably require more space than on routes to Asia...;)
For me, seat pitch is much more important.


Originally Posted by oliver2002 (Post 20885485)
LXs Y product is nothing stellar right now, but still compares to EK.

Would go a step further here and say that EK Y beats LX Y hands down. EK has better meals, friendlier staff, MUCH better IFE and once you have status on EK the lounges are also massively better.
LX Y has become worse over the last few years with service quality also going down tremendously. There are multiple reasons for that, but the way the treat their Cabin Attendants definitely does not help their motivation (i.e. the super short stop in SIN, replacing A340's with A3330 that don't have crew rests, etc)

So not surprised to see them going 10 abreast, clearly quality is no longer the primer in the back of the bus but it's literally all about money. Luckily the brand name still radiates quality, but this may change quicker than Harry would like!



Originally Posted by verve (Post 20884128)
I don't have to worry since I never would fly Y on a longhaul flight

I said the same 3 years ago... now I am doing 350k/year in Y... and therefore looking for a new job :-) "sag niemals nie..."

PS: ok, just reading that post again and realizing it's a bit of LX bashing... sorry about that, will post anyway :D

f4freeJunior Jun 8, 13 10:30 am

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9900; de) AppleWebKit/534.11+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.1.0.714 Mobile Safari/534.11+)

The Swiss Y citizen is still quite cost sensitive and first thing he looks at is price. Seat pitch...I assume most Y flyers don't even know where to look up that figure and just book the cheapest flight available. Different story for Swiss C and F citizen. Apologize for the funny wording but I wanted to distinguish between a citizen and the SWISS airline :p.

gojko88 Jun 8, 13 10:47 am


Originally Posted by f4freeJunior (Post 20887520)
The Swiss Y citizen is still quite cost sensitive and first thing he looks at is price.

Really? Because I remember reports from a year or two back saying that the Swiss are willing to pay a price premium to fly their national airline, especially if it's a direct flight as opposed to a connecting one.

alinghi90 Jun 8, 13 12:05 pm


Originally Posted by gojko88 (Post 20887603)
Really? Because I remember reports from a year or two back saying that the Swiss are willing to pay a price premium to fly their national airline, especially if it's a direct flight as opposed to a connecting one.

Some do some don't. But I'd say the trend is in direction to price sensitivity. "People" are starting to recognize the lower service level. Furthermore - or as a cause of the previous point - people more and more don't give SWISS the national carrier bonus anymore. Influence from Germany is getting stronger. Not only in management, but also in cabin.
I have lots of ideas how to counter these trends (of lowering service experience/quality), but I don't see the willingness at LX management right now. The culture at the company suffered a lot over the past few years. In my view, LX needs more distance to LH in some cultural, management and also product aspects.

LoungeLizzard Jun 17, 13 3:51 pm

Why does only "Y" get hit?
 
Marketing people always seem to win when it comes to adding more cool features and space in Business and First.
I remember not that long ago, a 62 inch pitch, 6 across and an angled seat (not even angled lie flat) were state of the art in first.

Today, people complain about that in business.

So there, the argumentation must be: "We just HAVE to add this and that gadget and use 50% more space per pax to make sure we can recover some yield." "And let's add a bar and a lounge and who cares about a cubic meter of water so they can have a shower".

In economy however, the argumentation seems to be the other way around: "The yield is so low anyway and we only sell on price, not quality, so we might as well put in the highest density charter configuration and offer the lowest possible service level". "And let's put 1g less sugar in the little bags, because our customers are so dumb they won't notice and we can surely safe a lot of fuel like this.".

Self fulfilling prophecy, it seems.

Fendant Jun 22, 13 4:42 am

I am with Verve, very unlikely that Y class will accomodate me in business or prifate travel. However Swiss seems to be under bad influence by unionised mother LH.They constantly "enhance" the M%M program, meaning they cut here and then there and then....:mad: So I fear that on the 777's they will reintroduce the dreadful middle seat in C.

HON was clearly a program rewarding loyalty. Now you don't earn miles any longer in eco fares in Europe or in lowest biz class z, nor can you upgrade.
You get vouchers which are useless unless you book the hightest y-fare (which is sometimes higher than the z-fare )

I switched all my eastbound long hauls to Middle East carriers. Last time on EK out of ZRH 6/8 first class pax had HON tags on their luggage. All said that the latest enhancements had driven them away from booking LH/ LX:eek:
On my next flight 3/6 had HON tags outbound and 7/8 inbound!

MichielR Jun 22, 13 7:48 am


Originally Posted by Fendant (Post 20969021)
I am with Verve, very unlikely that Y class will accomodate me in business or prifate travel. However Swiss seems to be under bad influence by unionised mother LH.They constantly "enhance" the M%M program, meaning they cut here and then there and then....:mad: So I fear that on the 777's they will reintroduce the dreadful middle seat in C.

A middle seat would be very unlikely. Either they stick with the current staggered but will do it like OS on the B777, or they will move to a new C seat a la CX.

airoli Jun 26, 13 1:48 am


Originally Posted by Fendant (Post 20969021)
All said that the latest enhancements had driven them away from booking LH/ LX:eek:

You should do focus groups for LX on these flights! ;)


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