wigstheone writes:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

What bothers me the most is that it is interfering with the natural development of the World's Best Bulletin Board. Everything really good on Flyer Talk happened totally spontaneously and ended up wonderful.

Now it seems like there is some big master plan directing that development and it is, I am afraid, doomed. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Already today, I have news of several beloved FT members "walking away". How sad that this amazing place is slip sliding away.

Let's try not to get too worked up yet about this new system that Randy is experimenting with, to deal with out of place threads. Due to being on the road today, I have not moved anything to the "Misplaced" board (and will probably refrain from doing so for a few more days). Randy seems to have a vision about where certain class of threads belong, and I think we owe it to him to see how this plays out.

I'll be monitoring his actions and eventually will try to mimic his patterns, as regards Buzz. I am committed to verbalizing why something is being moved, please note.

Craig (a.k.a. Moderator2)

Not getting worked up, Craig. Sadly getting worked down. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

FlyerTalk as it is (was) is a glorius combustible miracle that snaps, crackles, pops, sometimes explodes, flows and eventually parties, laughs, sometimes cries, and eventually loves itself into perfection.

That can't be engineered and I am just sad to see it going away.

After Indiana University tore down the old Tenth Street Stadium (featured in the movie Breaking Away, a very large arboretum was designed and built. It included lots of sidewalks so that students could traverse the large open space.

Know what? The landscape architects included some walkways that were not in the natural traffic patterns that quickly developed when the students returned in the fall. They failed to put sidewalks in other areas that rapidly turned into muddy ruts under the constant pressure of thousands of feet.

Did IU fence off the shortcuts and other foot-worn pathways to force traffic back onto the existing sidewalks? No.

Maintenance quickly filled the pathways with mulch that winter and come spring, several new sidewalks were poured in recognition of the reality - 30,000 students will create paths that make the most sense to them, rigid architecture be ****ed. Some of the pointless walkways to nowhere were even ripped up. I suppose herds of most large animals behave similarly.

That a large university would rearrange new sidewalks to accomodate the constituents rather than installing signs warning to "KEEP OFF THE GRASS" and "STAY ON THE WALKS" -- was an indication that arbitrary regimentation would not always be required.

Accordingly, I disagreed with the decision last year to create so many new fora. Even the Grand Rapids, MI airport has its own forum. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif We've even joked in MilesBuzz about the banishment of our own threads to TravelBuzz or, Heaven Forbid, OMNI, and how that will cut down significantly on the discussion.

Still, I rarely tell my hosts how they should arrange their living room furniture or design their gardens. And since this is Randy's place, I respect his decision on such matters. After all, they're his sidewalks and he's gracious enough to let us walk all over them (even when some FTers stage a food fight and trash the place).

[This message has been edited by FWAAA (edited 02-28-2002).]

Please also see:

Misposted Threads ????

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum73/HTML/000342.html

I have to agree with Punki 100% here. I started reading FlyerTalk about 12-18 months ago and found it to be full of great ideas and a general willingness to help.

The last few weeks have seen an increase in the animosity of users as well as a general grumpiness as the "gentle hand from above" is becoming the "heavy hand from above".

I had a post closed on MilesBuzz today. First of all, it bothered me that it was closed as this would never have happened a few months ago. But, the moderators are within their rights to do so.

What bothered me even more was the few FlyerTalkers who seemingly read every post on MilesBuzz searching for ones which are off-topic and posting a "Moderator, please shut this down note" similar to the little kindergarteners yelling "Teacher, Teacher".

I may read FT as much as I have in the past, but if this pace continues, my contributions will be less and, if things go to the extreme, I see myself losing interest all together.

Greg

Nope. I read the posts because I want to learn something that per the forum's description (!!) has something to do with "the latest FF program buzz." Your post did not, interesting as it was. I would have read it in Omni (where it should have gone in the first place) and would have enjoyed it there.

It sounds to me as if you (reluctantly) acknowledge the right of the moderator to make sure the posts are on the topic of the forum, but object when folks want to assist that process. In other words, it appears to me that you don't want to get caught by "the teacher." So in your own way are you not doing from a different direction exactly what you are decrying? -- instead of "tattling" you're hoping to make an end-run around "the authorities."

Agreed. That's a different issue, though, than whether one is going to respect the wishes of our host in the meantime.

Again, agreed. The alternative is to start one's own bulletin board.

Agree on all counts. Well said.

(Edited because part of what I wrote was gratuitously inflamatory)

[This message has been edited by cblaisd (edited 03-03-2002).]

what people seem to be missing (and maybe some are not missing it but just don't agree) is that Randy's actions (and the actions of those acting on his behalf) are in RESPONSE to a situation which was becoming untenable. Several members of longstanding were engaging in tactics more approproprite to 6 year olds than to FF adults in this modern world. Now whilie I don't agree 100% with the tack Randy is taking to deal with the unpleasantness - IMHO he is going to GREAT lengths, lengths to which I would not go, to preserve the memberships of those most DIRECTLY involved in this pettiness - I do respect that he is atttempting a fix which in his mind will help alleviate the problem. FT is becoming a less pleasant place to be perhaps, but to lay that ALL on the heavier moderation of threads is unfair.

Additionally, is it possible that Randy is attempting something larger than it looks here - to gauge WHERE threads should , in his mind, most properly go, and therefore establishing a benchmark for what fora to keep and which to eliminate? I don't have any other info then the rest of you but if I were trying to make FT simpler I'd certainly want to know where the most popular fora are.

I am frustrated w/ FT right now but not close to leaving. If I can be of some help I would rather do that then give it up. At least for now.


edited for my usual lousy typing


[This message has been edited by squeakr (edited 03-04-2002).]

I've noticed that if threads are moved the email information is removed. Maybe if there was an easy way to find a user's email, this would not be a problem. But now one has to run search - which forum do I search and how far back do I search for someone who does not post often? And if this is the poster's first post, then how do I get the email address?

Please retain the email information when moving threads.

The loss of the email link is only applicable when we have to move a post from one forum to another (Miles to Travel, etc.). While we are certainly as dissapointed as anyone that this system can't work better, we are hopeful that the work we are doing now will create a less clutered FlyerTalk and in the near future with the cooperation of the members of flyerTalk, it won't be necessary to move these threads around.

When addressing the idea of placing all the most popular forums in one area, I'm reminded that USA Today doesn't place the sports box scores in the money section nor in the front news section, even though that's those are the sections i read first - they seem to think that a system, like other papers which have a Metro section or a sports page are better served with some sort of organization. It always will bring up the conclusion that what is popular is not that important to me as an individual. I see that Starwood and United are the most popular program forums, Well, what's wrong with Marriott and Northwest for me? It won't be on the most popular, but it's far more importnat to me than some of the others. I think you've all seen by now that we have stated over and over again that if and when the technology comes forth to create MyFlyerTalk where all these things are possible, you'll see it here on FlyerTalk. As for the snap, crack and pop of FlyerTalk, from my perspective it's still here but then again, that conversation leads to what level of tolerance you are willing to put up with that creates this snap, crackle pop? Care to guess what over 400,000 individuals might say to their own level of tolerance to snap, crack and pop? It would be best to think of FlyerTalk as a city with 400,000 residents. Name one of these cities where some of the smaller neighbors haven't been razed or changed in the name of progress. The good thing is that if done right, new neighborhoods are created that are just as dynamic and interesting as the old neighborhoods. Here in Colorado Springs I am among the majority that want more major access to link to the freeway system, but i don't want it to go through my neighborhood - go figure.

Please continue to post your comments, they are all appreciated and can help us grow. Just remember - we're not in Kansas anymore.

wat? wee knot en cansis enymoar? artruo jus sea toto en hes naborhood, an sumwon thet luuk lik a jayhawk.

butt, artruo ded heer thet we mov two kollarado. mebe thet wher awl the threds goe?

------------------
Loving, Caring, Honest, Intelligent, Empathetic, Creative, and Giving.

I don't believe that is true. The following post was initially posted to MilesBuzz and ended there finally, but email info is lost for some posters in there:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/006596.html

[This message has been edited by PG (edited 03-19-2002).]

OK, you don't think that it is true. But this is. It started in MilesBuzz!. Craig mistook the intent of the post and put it over in TravelBuzz! since he didn't at first get the implication it was for credit card earning miles since it was not titled that way (an honest mistake). Most of the subsequent posts were made while it was in TravelBuzz! I came across it and understood the the context (as did Craig later on) and moved it back to MilesBuzz! since it was appropriate in my eyes. If you were to contact the person who started the thread and ask him and others their thoughts, she will tell you that I contacted her in person, explained the changes and she was totally pleased it got the personal attention it did. Again, it was moved from TravelBuzz! to MilesBuzz! a transfer between forums thus losing the email. Craig was apologetic for missing the link to miles and all that was actually on this thread. I however in the sake of trying to focus on the topic at hand, decided to delte comments relating to the transfer of the thread since it was history. So, again, the loss of email in this case was because of a cross board transfer and an honest mistake.

Yes, Randy's description of the thread's history tracks with my memory. I missed the reference to AA in my initial read of it. My bad http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Hey Craig, lighten up on yourself. You are the consummate hero of FlyerTalk and have earned the admiration and respect of all FlyerTalkers.

KUDOS! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif