Cash & Points - Currency Q
Feb 6, 2008, 3:31 pm
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 10,167
Incorrect. I have Westin Frankfurt booked on cash and points. They added an additional 19% of to my room rate
Your Rate
Avg Est
Room Total
per Night* Est Total
for Your Stay*
1 Room, 2 Nights
Room Rate: USD 60.00 USD 120.00
Room rate excludes the following:
Mandatory taxes:
Vat: 19.00%
Per Room / Per Night USD 11.40 USD 22.80
Estimated Total*: USD 71.40 USD 142.80
Your Rate
Avg Est
Room Total
per Night* Est Total
for Your Stay*
1 Room, 2 Nights
Room Rate: USD 60.00 USD 120.00
Room rate excludes the following:
Mandatory taxes:
Vat: 19.00%
Per Room / Per Night USD 11.40 USD 22.80
Estimated Total*: USD 71.40 USD 142.80
Feb 6, 2008, 5:26 pm
#17
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: STR/SYD/SMF
Programs: QF Lifetime SG, LH HON, OZ Lifetime Diamond +, HH Diamond, Marriott Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 14,373
BlissWorld, Flying Lawyer is correct. Advertising a rate without VAT is illegal in Germany. So the fact that you were charged, only proofs that Starwood is breaching the law. It does not proof that Flying Lawyer is wrong.
Feb 6, 2008, 5:32 pm
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles & Orange County, CA
Programs: Wouldn't you like to know?!
Posts: 23,822
I'm not speaking of the advertised rates. I'm speaking of strictly cash and points, which is an award redemption....loopholes?
Feb 6, 2008, 11:13 pm
#21
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: STR/SYD/SMF
Programs: QF Lifetime SG, LH HON, OZ Lifetime Diamond +, HH Diamond, Marriott Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 14,373
If you advertise any price to the general public in Germany it has to include VAT. It doesn't matter whether it is EUR 195 or the local equivalent to USD40.
Last edited by DownUnderFlyer; Feb 6, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Feb 7, 2008, 12:23 am
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 10,167
As far as the laws in Germany regarding VAT are concerned, the cash part of cash & points is just an advertised rate. The German Taxation Office collects tax on the cash portion. So there is no loophole.
If you advertise any price to the general public in Germany it has to include VAT. It doesn't matter whether it is EUR 195 or the local equivalent to USD40.
If you advertise any price to the general public in Germany it has to include VAT. It doesn't matter whether it is EUR 195 or the local equivalent to USD40.
Feb 7, 2008, 12:36 am
#24
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: IAH
Posts: 242
I would even rephrase it: If you advertise any price in Germany, it includes VAT. Your "hidden reservation" to add VAT to the price at a later stage is irrelevant. The seller (Starwood) offers the rate and the buyer (you) accepts. This results in a contract on a rate of USD X INCL of VAT.
Feb 7, 2008, 1:01 pm
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 10,167
That is what I said earlier: However, for 5 Euro nobody will take them to court....
Feb 7, 2008, 10:26 pm
#26
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: IAH
Posts: 242
But someone must have complained? I mean, you can't possibly be the only guest who went, "Wait a minute, why am I paying VAT on top of listed price? This is illegal in this country!"
Feb 8, 2008, 12:06 pm
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 10,167
Seriously, 80 perc. of C&P users are Americans and they consider it to be normal. A substantial number comes from other countries and they are not aware what is legal and what is not legal. And the remaining minority will not take the effort to discuss with a call center agent in the US or Ireland on German tax law.
Feb 9, 2008, 5:02 pm
#28
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,847
According to the Platinum concierge, rates are guaranteed in US dollars if you pay in cash or with US dollar travellers cheques. Rates are converted to the local currency if you pay by credit card.
Feb 9, 2008, 6:23 pm
#29
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Our Nation's Capital
Posts: 357
Hotel presents you with a cash portion which is already been converted into Euros using hotel's rate as of some date. You have a choice - to pay in cash euros, to pay with a credit card in euros which will be converted back into US Dollars by your CC company/bank or to pay in cash US Dollars BUT also converted back using some exhange rate. So, $40 cash portion turned out to be about $43-$44 with two back and forth exchange rates.
Mar 14, 2008, 4:41 pm
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: West Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,469
I spent two nights at the Singapore LeMeridien on a C&P stay and was given a customer-friendly conversion. The SGD exchange rate was cheaper than the $30usd published rate (but less than a $1).