myperks

yurtripper

Dunno about how they may have counted in the dim and distant past, but they certainly don't count for 2x LT credits currently. In fact, someone who joined SPG only recently, and then received a Select promo for 2x stays/nights, could end up with the #nights in the current quarter being greater than their LT nights (unlikely scenario, I'll admit, but possible).

schley

The double nights promos have never counted towards lifetime status in the 10 years I have been in the program.

The revenue requirement you are talking about is not revenue, but MR points of 2 million which you can get through CC spend and generously 20 points per dollar spent at Marriott properties with elite bonuses.

NOT apples to apples when considering this.

itsallgood

There were differences with both programs.
Credit for multiple rooms?
Top tier for 25 stays? Lowered with credit cards?

Not apples to apples but you're going to emphasize the parts of SPG that are more stringent, make sure to also include the many areas where they were more easy.

schley

I have multiple times in the three or so threads discussing this, which I'm sure you have read. We are ONLY talking about LIFETIME status here thus multiple room night credit is the only aspect which was more generous in terms of LT qualification.

The top tier for stays only comes into play for the yearly qualification NOT LT nights. CC again has nothing to do with LT nights, as those were never part of the criteria.

imverge

Ma'am you can HUACA until you hear what you want to hear.

MSPeconomist

phltraveler

And only the room rate qualified at most of those properties. There were a handful of "qualifying charges" exceptions at the top tier which excluded certain brands (like the Autograph Collection, Atlantis, Paradise Island) and not all Delta properties participated. The credit card spend was a relatively nominal 1-3 points per dollar for most spend (depending on category) for the rest of it.

Right now, 2x starpoints on the credit card (translates to 6 marriott points) is slightly more favorable.

So at SPG properties vs Marriott at the 3:1 conversion rate, with credit card:

General Member status: Two points per dollar on stays (6 MR) + 2 points per dollar for spending on card (6 MR) = 4 SPG points (12 MR, vs the 5 MR general stay + 5 MR credit card spend = 10MR that a Marriott Member would have gotten at the lower end, or 10 + 5 = 15 MR at the higher end) = General members who stayed FS at Marriott ended up slightly ahead over SPG, but behind at lower end properties
Gold SPG: Three points per dollar on stays (9 MR ) + 2 points per dollar for spending on card (6 MR) = 5 SPG points (15 MR, vs the 5 MR general stay + 20% bonus (1 pt for silver) + 5 credit card pts = 11 pts, or 16 pts if the member stayed at a 10pt property instead of a 5) = Gold Members who stayed at SPG ended up ahead or slightly behind depending on property
Plat SPG 50 = Same earn rate as gold = 5 SPG points (15MR, vs 5MR general stay + 25% bonus at MR Gold [same requirement] [1.25 pts] + 5 credit card pts = 11.25 pts or 16.50 pts) - pretty much same as above
Plat SPG 75 = Additional point over SPG 50 = with credit card, 6 SPG points per dollar (18 MR equivalent vs. 5 + 2.5 pts [50% bonus, MR plat, same requirement] + 5 = 12.5 pts or 17.5 pts equivalent at ten point properties (additional 5 pts per dollar, on stays only)).

This all assumes one has an annual fee enrolled credit card, gets it, and uses it consistently. A lot of employers require use of their credit card. Others may not find it worth the annual fee.

So as far as I can tell, SPG Plat 75 had similar point earning (for any property, vs. just higher end properties @ MR), and lower tiers either in MR earned better or worse depending on the "grade" of property they ended up at (5pts vs 10pts). SPG generally also transferred in/out on spending elsewhere.
SPG annual status was easier to qualify based on stay count, but lifetime status required years qualification at the status combined with the nights total, whereas MR was solely nights (and years of higher activity compared to the average night total for a year would average out years of total night total). The totals I listed above are thrown off if you qualified on stays rather than nights as MR qualification was nights only.
SPG credit cards generally awarded overall purchases at a higher rate (1 SPG on most purchases = 3MR), whereas the Marriott Visa generally awarded non-Marriott purchases at either 1MR or 2MR per dollar. To emphasize this, you would only need to spend "a mere" 20K at a Marriott to get 100K MR pts for lifetime qualification on an MR credit card, but to pad that with misc expenses to get 100K, you'd need to spend $50-$100K. Makes that 2M points very easy to accomplish outside hotel room rate spend... (/s)

As far as the "nights" boogeyman, I think it depends on category. There are many instances under which booking multiple rooms could have benefited me under MR if they counted for elite status (if it did, I would have booked that way), and there are multiple instances in which it would have benefited me (booked multiple rooms anyways, but didn't derive elite qualification or benefit beyond one room as an MR member).

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As far as a merger goes, I would like to pretend (more honestly, wish) it was a merger of equals. I do not currently believe this to be the case - although I think it's better than most people on both sides could have hoped for.

The overall status mappings are not unfair (in my opinion). GM status remains GM. For the rest, the overall increased presence of the combined brand makes it easier to stay continuously at that brand without hopping or satisfying convenience. MR did not have 10 stay/25 stay thresholds for their status, the corresponding status in MR took either 50 nights or 75 nights (and even on the night thresholds Starwood was easier at 25/50 as they temporarily matched in the different programs). SPG night requirements - 25 or 50 - map with the elite levels established in the new program. Giving SPG Golds Marriott Gold (SPG 10 stays OR 25 nights = 50 Marriott Nights) and SPG Plats (25 stays OR 50 nights = 75 Marriott Nights) was relatively generous in the pre-merger program. The mapping of the lifetime statuses overall based on list requirements is not unfair either (250 nights lifetime in either program maps to the new gold, 500 lifetime nights in either program maps to the new platinum - sorry if a "lower metal" in MR got mapped to a "higher metal" in the combined program).

In terms of lifetime status, I believe the night totals of both programs COMBINED plus point totals (converted at 3:1 SPG) should prevail, and cumulatively totaled pre-merger. If someone hits 750 nights+ and 2M MR pts equivalent premerger across both programs when prorated from SPG to MR and combined, I believe they should be grandfathered-LTPP. I believe the current status map is unfair in this sense, as it seems to leave some very loyal SPG elites on the higher end out of a higher post-merge status that they would have earned under the same standard at MR.

I do believe that MR does have a lot of goodwill to lose in terms of those who qualified under criteria that under both SPG + Marriott or SPG alone would have qualified previously as MR LTP status and LTTP under the grandfather criteria that won't get it under the published terms. And I would definitely encourage you to correspond on this in a polite and formal manner to get attention both individually and as a group on this.

Still my opinion, for whatever it's worth.

Fanjet

I would not be surprised if Marriott decides to give MR LTPP status to SPG LTP members with at least 750 nights stayed. And really, no one should have an objection to this. But let me point out that if MR LTPP status is given to every SPG LTP member, then current MR LTG members will have a valid dispute to be made LTPP members as well. As they have also met the 500 night requirement current SPG LTPs have . @:-)

Oh... and it doesn't end there. Since current SPG LTGs will be made LTG in the new program, then current MR LTSs have a valid dispute to be made LTG going forward as well. As they have stayed at least 250 nights like the SPG LTGs have.

yurtripper

I'm starting to think all this might one day form the basis of a case study in Harvard Business School: "And this is an object lesson in why hotel chains should never launch a new loyalty program mid-year."

parkums

schley

I noted with elite status, also don't forget we haven't even included the Marriott Vacation Club members who get nights for stays at their timeshares. My parents have 3 and get nights each time they stay in them. In addition they get points 175k I believe if they choose to take the points that year.

Again let's be transparent.

SPG has a very small timeshare business and is minuscule compared to Marriott Vacation Club.

itsallgood

The bottom line is that almost everyone's LT status was earned on OPM.

One aspect of this DYKWIA that's bothersome from some SPG elites is the fact that LT status for SPG didn't even exist until 2011 or 2012. I had been a SPG plat from the late 90s until approximately 2003 when I started booking all of my nights with Marriott because only Marriott and Hyatt offered LT status. So SPG LT status is a relatively new concept.

paolo64

tods27

This is the main reason why I have 707 nights at Marriott properties, but don't have any LT status with them. I did benefit (for nights) from a year on a project where they used Marriott's long term apartment service (can't remember the name) where I got credit for nights, but no points accumulation. Even under the reduced point scheme (2,000,000 instead of 3,000,000) in MR, you almost have to have the MR Credit card and spend heavily to make LT status.

I had hoped that they would do a UA/CO type thing where they recalculated all the numbers then doled out the appropriate status. In that case (which I have posted about before), there was only a couple discrepancies (counting certain partner flights and some status bonuses) that they had the data to recalculate them. I was hoping for simply counting my lifetime points in SPG and adding them to my MR points in the hope of getting me to LTG (MR level). Now, I'm going to benefit (at least I think) from the new program in that I am expecting to qualify for LTP based on a bunch of years as MR Plat. I'm not exactly sure yet as I can't remember exactly what years I was MR Plat, but it was at least 8 and I have 1 SPG Plat year (and then there's the whole "Will they count MR Gold years towards the new LTP level" question).

Personally, I like the idea of calculating the nights in SPG and then using the 750 night bogey to grandfather an SPG LTP to LTPP. I would not like to see them use combined MR and SPG nights. I think that it would need to be solely based on SPG nights. I would also like to see them just do this and not make a big announcement about it. The people who are affected would know, and anyone else doesn't need to know.