May 10, 2018, 7:14 am
Last edit by: Tokyoite
Regardless of the various arguments on whether SPG Golds were ever really "entitled" to Marriott Gold benefits, etc., etc... one thing is clear: SPG Golds will be losing a benefit mid-year, which is guaranteed 4 pm checkout.
It’s been clarified as of today. Starwood Lurker also just posted a clarification here:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29734454-post980.html
It’s been clarified as of today. Starwood Lurker also just posted a clarification here:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29734454-post980.html
Lifetime and Elite Status Updates
Since our announcement last month, we’ve been listening to member feedback and have a few updates and clarifications to share.
LIFETIME
Based on member response, we’re adding more flexibility for Lifetime Platinum Premier qualification. Now, SPG and Rewards members who achieve 750 nights and 10 years of Platinum status by December 31, 2018 will be grandfathered into that Lifetime tier, which starting in 2019 will no longer be available to earn. Rewards members can also qualify under the current criteria (750 nights + 2M points) through year end.
As we shared previously, members can also qualify for all other Lifetime tiers through both the new criteria on an ongoing basis and under the current criteria through December 31, 2018. And remember, we’ll combine lifetime activity across both Rewards and SPG toward qualification when members combine accounts in August.
AUGUST ELITE STATUS
We’ve also received some questions regarding status in the new program for members who status matched to receive elite in both SPG and Rewards. In August, nights earned (vs. linked status) will determine Elite status in the new program. For example, a SPG Gold member (10 stays/25 nights) who status matched to Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) will be mapped to Gold Elite (25 nights) in the new program, whereas a Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) will be mapped to Platinum Elite (50 nights).
The below FAQs hopefully provide even more detail, and have now been added to members.marriott.com. Please be sure to let us know what other questions we can help answer.
Additional FAQs
Can I earn Lifetime status under the legacy requirements (active prior to August 2018) for Lifetime Elite status in Marriott Rewards, Ritz-Carlton Rewards or SPG? If so, when will I be notified of my Lifetime Elite status?
Yes, in addition to earning based on the new criteria, members can earn Lifetime Elite Status under the legacy requirements through the end of 2018. If Lifetime status is achieved by legacy requirements, between August and December 31, 2018 you will receive notice of your updated Lifetime Elite status in January 2019. If Lifetime status is achieved based on the new criteria, you will be notified both in August 2018 as well as any time it is achieved through the end of the year.
Example: An SPG member has 300 Lifetime nights, 4 years of Gold Elite Status, and 1 year of Platinum Elite Status after August, 2018. Under the SPG legacy Lifetime requirements, this member would earn Lifetime Gold Elite status which would reflect in their account January 2019.
If I will not be grandfathered into Lifetime Platinum Premier Elite, will I have the ability to earn into this level in 2018?
Yes, members can earn Lifetime Platinum Premier Elite in 2018 if they achieve 750 Lifetime nights and 10 years at Platinum Elite status. This requirement is only for 2018 and will not be continued in future years. Members will receive notice of this Lifetime achievement in January 2019.
How are years at tenure calculated for Legacy MR and RCR members?
We are keeping members “whole” in the applicable night tier in which they earned their Elite status.
Example: If a member has 4 years of Elite status at the 50 night level (Gold Elite status) they will be counted in August and beyond as 4 years at the new 50 night level (Platinum Elite status). Only the names of the levels are changing. How we account for tenure is not changing.
I already linked my SPG and Rewards accounts. What will happen to my matched elite status in August?
The current status matching opportunity is tier for tier (e.g. Gold gets Gold, Platinum gets Platinum), even though the qualification requirements and benefits between SPG and Rewards are quite different. Given this, the following Elite status mapping will occur in August (unless a member has also qualified by nights for higher status):
SPG Members
· SPG Gold (10 stays/25 nights) is status matched to Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) and in August will be Gold Elite (25 nights)
· SPG Platinum (25 stays/50 nights) is status matched to Rewards Platinum Elite (75 nights) and in August will be Platinum Elite (50 nights)
Rewards Members
· Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) is status matched to SPG Gold (10 stays/25 nights) and in August will be Platinum Elite (50 nights)
· Rewards Platinum Elite (75 nights) is status matched to SPG Platinum (25 stays/50 nights) and in August will be Platinum Premier Elite (75 nights)
Question: Does this mean that SPG Gold who is given the elite status from Amex Plat or an airline program with 0 or less than 5 qualifying nights will get matched to... nothing (ie basic)?...Answer: I'm told "No" –if you have the card and get Gold today…you will be mapped to the NEW Gold tier. So, if you have the AMEX Plat/Centurion card that gives you Gold today…you’ll still get Gold status – just with the newly-defined post August 2018 benefits.
LIFETIME
Based on member response, we’re adding more flexibility for Lifetime Platinum Premier qualification. Now, SPG and Rewards members who achieve 750 nights and 10 years of Platinum status by December 31, 2018 will be grandfathered into that Lifetime tier, which starting in 2019 will no longer be available to earn. Rewards members can also qualify under the current criteria (750 nights + 2M points) through year end.
As we shared previously, members can also qualify for all other Lifetime tiers through both the new criteria on an ongoing basis and under the current criteria through December 31, 2018. And remember, we’ll combine lifetime activity across both Rewards and SPG toward qualification when members combine accounts in August.
AUGUST ELITE STATUS
We’ve also received some questions regarding status in the new program for members who status matched to receive elite in both SPG and Rewards. In August, nights earned (vs. linked status) will determine Elite status in the new program. For example, a SPG Gold member (10 stays/25 nights) who status matched to Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) will be mapped to Gold Elite (25 nights) in the new program, whereas a Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) will be mapped to Platinum Elite (50 nights).
The below FAQs hopefully provide even more detail, and have now been added to members.marriott.com. Please be sure to let us know what other questions we can help answer.
Additional FAQs
Can I earn Lifetime status under the legacy requirements (active prior to August 2018) for Lifetime Elite status in Marriott Rewards, Ritz-Carlton Rewards or SPG? If so, when will I be notified of my Lifetime Elite status?
Yes, in addition to earning based on the new criteria, members can earn Lifetime Elite Status under the legacy requirements through the end of 2018. If Lifetime status is achieved by legacy requirements, between August and December 31, 2018 you will receive notice of your updated Lifetime Elite status in January 2019. If Lifetime status is achieved based on the new criteria, you will be notified both in August 2018 as well as any time it is achieved through the end of the year.
Example: An SPG member has 300 Lifetime nights, 4 years of Gold Elite Status, and 1 year of Platinum Elite Status after August, 2018. Under the SPG legacy Lifetime requirements, this member would earn Lifetime Gold Elite status which would reflect in their account January 2019.
If I will not be grandfathered into Lifetime Platinum Premier Elite, will I have the ability to earn into this level in 2018?
Yes, members can earn Lifetime Platinum Premier Elite in 2018 if they achieve 750 Lifetime nights and 10 years at Platinum Elite status. This requirement is only for 2018 and will not be continued in future years. Members will receive notice of this Lifetime achievement in January 2019.
How are years at tenure calculated for Legacy MR and RCR members?
We are keeping members “whole” in the applicable night tier in which they earned their Elite status.
Example: If a member has 4 years of Elite status at the 50 night level (Gold Elite status) they will be counted in August and beyond as 4 years at the new 50 night level (Platinum Elite status). Only the names of the levels are changing. How we account for tenure is not changing.
I already linked my SPG and Rewards accounts. What will happen to my matched elite status in August?
The current status matching opportunity is tier for tier (e.g. Gold gets Gold, Platinum gets Platinum), even though the qualification requirements and benefits between SPG and Rewards are quite different. Given this, the following Elite status mapping will occur in August (unless a member has also qualified by nights for higher status):
SPG Members
· SPG Gold (10 stays/25 nights) is status matched to Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) and in August will be Gold Elite (25 nights)
· SPG Platinum (25 stays/50 nights) is status matched to Rewards Platinum Elite (75 nights) and in August will be Platinum Elite (50 nights)
Rewards Members
· Rewards Gold Elite (50 nights) is status matched to SPG Gold (10 stays/25 nights) and in August will be Platinum Elite (50 nights)
· Rewards Platinum Elite (75 nights) is status matched to SPG Platinum (25 stays/50 nights) and in August will be Platinum Premier Elite (75 nights)
Question: Does this mean that SPG Gold who is given the elite status from Amex Plat or an airline program with 0 or less than 5 qualifying nights will get matched to... nothing (ie basic)?...
SPG Gold today? You will NOT be getting Platinum after August 1st.
Apr 18, 2018, 9:52 pm
#61
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium/LTG, IHG Platinum
Posts: 1,921
The answer to this thread is extremely relevant for myself as I have at least two bookings in mid August - whilst two stays might be peanuts to some of your road warrior Platinum and above elites, to me it is a significant and big deal. Why? As a current SPG Gold who then matched to Marriott Gold, this means I have breakfast included in this status as of right now. So when I booked there was this benefit in place, and (after I have booked and) come August 1, that benefit is taken away. Bait and Switch? Kind of, that's for sure.
If I end up Gold come August 1, so be it and that's how Marriott wants to roll, but let me know as early as possible so I can make alternative hotel arrangements if it does not suit my situation. For now, my August bookings, there are two Hiltons and a Conrad that I can easily move my booking too if I lose my breakfast entitlement. Again, its peanuts in the scheme of things but lots of peanuts (from me and anyone else out there) becomes a lot - that's the big deal.
If I end up Gold come August 1, so be it and that's how Marriott wants to roll, but let me know as early as possible so I can make alternative hotel arrangements if it does not suit my situation. For now, my August bookings, there are two Hiltons and a Conrad that I can easily move my booking too if I lose my breakfast entitlement. Again, its peanuts in the scheme of things but lots of peanuts (from me and anyone else out there) becomes a lot - that's the big deal.
Apr 18, 2018, 10:07 pm
#62
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, MLife Gold, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Caesars Diamond, Amex Plat
Posts: 5,938
The answer to this thread is extremely relevant for myself as I have at least two bookings in mid August - whilst two stays might be peanuts to some of your road warrior Platinum and above elites, to me it is a significant and big deal. Why? As a current SPG Gold who then matched to Marriott Gold, this means I have breakfast included in this status as of right now. So when I booked there was this benefit in place, and (after I have booked and) come August 1, that benefit is taken away. Bait and Switch? Kind of, that's for sure.
If I end up Gold come August 1, so be it and that's how Marriott wants to roll, but let me know as early as possible so I can make alternative hotel arrangements if it does not suit my situation. For now, my August bookings, there are two Hiltons and a Conrad that I can easily move my booking too if I lose my breakfast entitlement. Again, its peanuts in the scheme of things but lots of peanuts (from me and anyone else out there) becomes a lot - that's the big deal.
If I end up Gold come August 1, so be it and that's how Marriott wants to roll, but let me know as early as possible so I can make alternative hotel arrangements if it does not suit my situation. For now, my August bookings, there are two Hiltons and a Conrad that I can easily move my booking too if I lose my breakfast entitlement. Again, its peanuts in the scheme of things but lots of peanuts (from me and anyone else out there) becomes a lot - that's the big deal.
Apr 18, 2018, 10:11 pm
#63
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London / Los Angeles
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, BA Silver
Posts: 1,631
I noticed the stumble, too, but had a very different inkling. It appeared he was trying to make sure he said the right words that were clear and met the rehearsed marketing verbiage. He repeated the party line a few times about not losing any benefits. The answer seemed very rehearsed so I took the pause as a shift from spontaneity into making sure he said every word exactly the way he memorized, that he followed the right script. And he explained that SPG Golds were not losing any SPG Gold benefits, of which breakfast was not one.
As someone who speaks publicly for a living and has done so for twenty years I can tell you that appeared to be a canned, prepared answer that was written. vetted, memorized and maybe even edited after the fact. If I am having dinner with friends and someone asks a question I often apologize first because I know I am about to give a prepared answer. It just comes across too methodical and detailed to be off the cuff. Even the voice changes, like his did. into clipped over enunciation with step by step points.
As someone who speaks publicly for a living and has done so for twenty years I can tell you that appeared to be a canned, prepared answer that was written. vetted, memorized and maybe even edited after the fact. If I am having dinner with friends and someone asks a question I often apologize first because I know I am about to give a prepared answer. It just comes across too methodical and detailed to be off the cuff. Even the voice changes, like his did. into clipped over enunciation with step by step points.
Apr 19, 2018, 12:01 am
#64
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: BDU
Programs: DL:MM, Marriott:LTT
Posts: 8,779
You might want to reach out to the hotel. Marriott properties, especially those outside the US, will often honor the status at the time of booking rather than a lower status at the time of stay. Reaching out now and if they say breakfast will be included having a note put on your reservation cannot hurt. If they say no at least you will have time to change your plans, but I would bet they say yes.
Apr 19, 2018, 1:53 am
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,041
But I suppose there are elements of implementation that simply wouldn't be convenient to do on January 1st during the holiday season...
Apr 19, 2018, 4:15 am
#66
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: AC
Posts: 2,167
Apr 19, 2018, 9:36 am
#67
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,399
I have been enjoying all of the comments about this 'merger'. I would like to say that whilst Marriott / Starwood are a USA hotel company, they do have a large international presence and my particular instance being located in Asia/Pacific, we do NOT have access to Amex or UA cards or any other such credit card device... has to be "beds".
And of course, all Asia/Pacific hotels are very much in the 5-star category - Starwood went out of their way up until about 2014 trying to put Sheraton / W / Westin into China and leaving the Pacific as a poor cousin (more closures) - that has changed now with Westins & W's going into a number of Australian cities and Four Points are also be made up-market, still nothing back in NZ
I would be interested to know what the numbers are for the mix of international vs USA members looks like
Why the context - well it is very hard to have a responsible budget and stay at these places, so we work a lot harder to get the same recognition as our USA peers (and from looking at the posts overnight the Canadiens are in the same boat (not too much from Europe yet)
back on point - I received 2 emails, the 1st is what I now know came from Marriott which said Lifetime Gold elite would go to Lifetime Plat (big celebration there able to keep the late checkout etc) and then the kicker an SPG email saying LTGold goes to LTGold (and loss of amenities)
so.... why are Marriot LTGOLD going Plat and SPG are not - sorry where is that fair
And of course, all Asia/Pacific hotels are very much in the 5-star category - Starwood went out of their way up until about 2014 trying to put Sheraton / W / Westin into China and leaving the Pacific as a poor cousin (more closures) - that has changed now with Westins & W's going into a number of Australian cities and Four Points are also be made up-market, still nothing back in NZ
I would be interested to know what the numbers are for the mix of international vs USA members looks like
Why the context - well it is very hard to have a responsible budget and stay at these places, so we work a lot harder to get the same recognition as our USA peers (and from looking at the posts overnight the Canadiens are in the same boat (not too much from Europe yet)
back on point - I received 2 emails, the 1st is what I now know came from Marriott which said Lifetime Gold elite would go to Lifetime Plat (big celebration there able to keep the late checkout etc) and then the kicker an SPG email saying LTGold goes to LTGold (and loss of amenities)
so.... why are Marriot LTGOLD going Plat and SPG are not - sorry where is that fair
Apr 19, 2018, 12:38 pm
#68
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 598
I understand both ends of it. If I were SPG Gold and matched Marriott Gold, it would feel odd to have those benefits taken away in the middle of the year. On the other hand, I think SPG Gold members knew they were getting the good end of the deal when they were generously matched to Marriott Gold, so it's not completely unexpected that those benefits are going away. I'd almost think of it as a nice bonus that SPG Golds got to take advantage of for almost a year. Plus, there are simply so many people with SPG Gold (everyone from the timeshare system, Amex Plat holders, people with only 6 stays if they get the 4 elite night credits from both Amex cards, etc.), that it seems there could be an unreasonable amount of platinum members if Marriott does provide them with Plat status, resulting in a possible dilution of benefits (particularly upgrades) for those who earned Platinum status through 50-75 nights or 25 stays.
Apr 19, 2018, 1:06 pm
#69
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: BDU
Programs: DL:MM, Marriott:LTT
Posts: 8,779
The Australian article in which Ms Roe was credited with the erroneous statement has been updated and corrected. Here is the link and here is the quote:
I have cross-posted this because her original erroneous statement has been a big part of so many threads.
Under the new program, you’ll be matched to Platinum Elite, Marriott has confirmed, following initial confusion around Marriott Rewards Gold members being given Platinum Elite status in the new program, but SPG Gold members only getting Gold Elite status going forward, when under the current system, having SPG Gold gets your Marriott Gold when you link your accounts.
Apr 19, 2018, 2:19 pm
#70
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,411
I'm sorry. If you're saying that you still believe people who got Marriott Gold by linking their Marriott account to an SPG Gold account won't be Marriott Platinum in August, you and I don't read English the same way. Here are three relevant paragraphs from the revised article:
This directly says that SPG Golds that got Marriott Gold status through linking will be Platinum in August. It goes on to encourage people to link their accounts to make sure they can take advantage of this.
1. Your highest status today determines your status in the new scheme
Do you have both an SPG Gold card and a Marriott Rewards Gold card – even if that Marriott Gold status was really earned by linking your account to SPG Gold?
Under the new program, you’ll be matched to Platinum Elite, Marriott has confirmed, following initial confusion around Marriott Rewards Gold members being given Platinum Elite status in the new program, but SPG Gold members only getting Gold Elite status going forward, when under the current system, having SPG Gold gets your Marriott Gold when you link your accounts.
Do you have both an SPG Gold card and a Marriott Rewards Gold card – even if that Marriott Gold status was really earned by linking your account to SPG Gold?
Under the new program, you’ll be matched to Platinum Elite, Marriott has confirmed, following initial confusion around Marriott Rewards Gold members being given Platinum Elite status in the new program, but SPG Gold members only getting Gold Elite status going forward, when under the current system, having SPG Gold gets your Marriott Gold when you link your accounts.
Last edited by zachary; Apr 19, 2018 at 2:31 pm
Apr 19, 2018, 2:33 pm
#71
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,878
Unfortunately, I think the answer might still be a bit ambiguous. This same chart is on the Marriott side (https://members.marriott.com/marriottrewards/), saying that Marriott Gold Elite members will go to Platinum status in August. Neither chart mentions specific night requirements for the gold level, bringing us back to this same question. Hopefully, Marriott comes out with a clear statement soon.
Apr 19, 2018, 2:34 pm
#72
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London / Los Angeles
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, BA Silver
Posts: 1,631
I'm sorry. If you're saying that you still believe people who got Marriott Gold by linking their Marriott account to an SPG Gold account won't be Marriott Platinum in August, you and I don't read English the same way. Here are three relevant paragraphs from the revised article:
This directly says that SPG Golds that got Marriott Gold status through linking will be Platinum in August. It goes on to encourage people to link their accounts to make sure they can take advantage of this.
This directly says that SPG Golds that got Marriott Gold status through linking will be Platinum in August. It goes on to encourage people to link their accounts to make sure they can take advantage of this.
EDIT: nm I found it. AusBT and they are basing it on conversations with APAC head of loyalty. TBH the response from Marriott appears to be pretty clearly pointing to Marriott Gold members getting Platinum in August, regardless of how they achieved Gold - as long as they are Gold before August 1st. I think that is actually what the SVP in the video this thread is based on was saying but he kinda fumbled and made confusing contradictory statements.
Apr 19, 2018, 2:48 pm
#73
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: IAD/DCA
Programs: Hyatt Glob, Marriott Plat, AA EXP, UA Gold
Posts: 171
Cant wait to see how this clears up. Have a stay coming up in August and will switch to other (more conveniently located) property if I can't have my guaranteed 4PM checkout.
Apr 19, 2018, 3:35 pm
#74
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: AAdvantage Platinum, United Silver, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 2,276
This has been a mess since Monday, April 16, 2018, when Marriott announced, "Existing Elite members will continue to be Elite and will receive a new, but similar, tier level in August," and published three charts.
For SPG folks, https://members.marriott.com/spg/ has a chart showing that Gold Preferred Guest members today will be Gold Elite members in August.
For Rewards folks, https://members.marriott.com/marriottrewards/ and https://members.marriott.com/ritzcarltonrewards/ has charts showing that Gold Elite members today will be Platinum Elite members in August.
There's absolutely nothing about whether SPG Gold Preferred Guest members who now have Rewards Gold Elite status only because they linked their accounts will be have Gold Elite or Platinum Elite status in August.
The Official members.marriott.com website is ambiguous.
It's easy to take either side of the argument. The website is clearly making a distinction between Gold status in SPG and Rewards -- but there's nothing that differentiates between earned status and matched status.
When I looked this afternoon, the website was unchanged. It's been now been four days!
I don't think it's safe to rely on the Australian Business Traveler website as the ultimate authority on this question.
In the YouTube video from The Points Guy, Marriott's SVP of Global Loyalty, David Flueck, explained what will happen in August to those those who have Gold status:
"So the members who have earned Gold on the Marriott side, they'll then get Platinum."
"For members who have matched, they'll be getting then the Gold status, which is really more equivalent to the SPG Gold status."
But if that's the definitive answer, why hasn't the website been updated?
For SPG folks, https://members.marriott.com/spg/ has a chart showing that Gold Preferred Guest members today will be Gold Elite members in August.
For Rewards folks, https://members.marriott.com/marriottrewards/ and https://members.marriott.com/ritzcarltonrewards/ has charts showing that Gold Elite members today will be Platinum Elite members in August.
There's absolutely nothing about whether SPG Gold Preferred Guest members who now have Rewards Gold Elite status only because they linked their accounts will be have Gold Elite or Platinum Elite status in August.
The Official members.marriott.com website is ambiguous.
It's easy to take either side of the argument. The website is clearly making a distinction between Gold status in SPG and Rewards -- but there's nothing that differentiates between earned status and matched status.
When I looked this afternoon, the website was unchanged. It's been now been four days!
I don't think it's safe to rely on the Australian Business Traveler website as the ultimate authority on this question.
In the YouTube video from The Points Guy, Marriott's SVP of Global Loyalty, David Flueck, explained what will happen in August to those those who have Gold status:
"So the members who have earned Gold on the Marriott side, they'll then get Platinum."
"For members who have matched, they'll be getting then the Gold status, which is really more equivalent to the SPG Gold status."
But if that's the definitive answer, why hasn't the website been updated?
Apr 19, 2018, 3:54 pm
#75
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,878
So, three different Marriott execs at 3 different location said the same thing.