What are your expectations going forward? (Marriott-SPG Combined Program Speculation)
Oct 15, 2016, 3:29 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: MR-Amb, Hyatt-Globalist, AA-EXP
Posts: 1,744
What are your expectations going forward? (Marriott-SPG Combined Program Speculation)
I think the immediate implementation (status match + points transfer at 3:1) was probably about as good as most people reasonably expected when this was all first announced, so has that changed legacy SPG members' perspectives on what the combined program will look like?
I was certainly in the doom and gloom crowd when this was announced, but I'm a little more optimistic for the future of the combined program now.
I think I'd be pretty happy with the combined program if they took Marriott's current program and adopted SPG's breakfast policy, softened the upgrade language a little (suites would be great, but probably not a deal breaker for me at least), and removed the exemption from benefits for resort properties and Ritz properties.
I thought it would be very unlikely that we'd see added benefits, especially at Ritz and other high end Marriott properties (since I'm assuming they lobbied against these benefits initially), but looking back I've seen more St. Regis and Luxury Collection properties going above and beyond on upgrades and breakfast than I've seen properties skimping on them, so they must see some value in providing those perks to loyal guests. Also, for the most part, RCs and other high end properties already provide these benefits (minus suite upgrades) to anyone with an Amex platinum or virtuoso agent so why wouldn't they provide these benefits to a brand's most loyal customers.
I guess we'll see, but I'm planning on sticking with SPG again for this next year to see how it all shakes out, instead of switching 100% to Hyatt, which was my initial plan. Am I crazy for being a little optimistic?
I was certainly in the doom and gloom crowd when this was announced, but I'm a little more optimistic for the future of the combined program now.
I think I'd be pretty happy with the combined program if they took Marriott's current program and adopted SPG's breakfast policy, softened the upgrade language a little (suites would be great, but probably not a deal breaker for me at least), and removed the exemption from benefits for resort properties and Ritz properties.
I thought it would be very unlikely that we'd see added benefits, especially at Ritz and other high end Marriott properties (since I'm assuming they lobbied against these benefits initially), but looking back I've seen more St. Regis and Luxury Collection properties going above and beyond on upgrades and breakfast than I've seen properties skimping on them, so they must see some value in providing those perks to loyal guests. Also, for the most part, RCs and other high end properties already provide these benefits (minus suite upgrades) to anyone with an Amex platinum or virtuoso agent so why wouldn't they provide these benefits to a brand's most loyal customers.
I guess we'll see, but I'm planning on sticking with SPG again for this next year to see how it all shakes out, instead of switching 100% to Hyatt, which was my initial plan. Am I crazy for being a little optimistic?
Oct 15, 2016, 5:38 pm
#2
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: ATL
Programs: MR/SPG Plat, HH Gold, DL PM
Posts: 413
This is the biggest hot button for me personally, and I'm not very optimistic about it at this point, so I have as a goal for 2017 to get some Starwood resort stays in before they get absorbed into the exclusion nonsense.
Oct 15, 2016, 5:49 pm
#3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 109
I am very concerned the reasons I am SPG elite will go away. My expectations are low.
Oct 15, 2016, 6:40 pm
#4
Join Date: May 1999
Location: YEG
Posts: 1,578
when this buyout was first announced I was like NO....NO....NO.
I am SPG fan all the way. Never stayed at a Marriott ( except few Ritz Carlton hotels).
When I hear Marriott executives say we hear you SPG members and show that they actually understand the strength and value of the SPG program, I start gaining some confidence that MAR management will do the right thing.
When I heard MAR Executives say the aim is to pick the best features of SPG and MAR programs and create the best loyalty program in the industry, I believed them and gained more confidence and trust in MAR management
when the announcement of matching status and transfer ratio of 3:1 came out. I was fully confident and very optimistic that things are going to be good
^
I am SPG fan all the way. Never stayed at a Marriott ( except few Ritz Carlton hotels).
When I hear Marriott executives say we hear you SPG members and show that they actually understand the strength and value of the SPG program, I start gaining some confidence that MAR management will do the right thing.
When I heard MAR Executives say the aim is to pick the best features of SPG and MAR programs and create the best loyalty program in the industry, I believed them and gained more confidence and trust in MAR management
when the announcement of matching status and transfer ratio of 3:1 came out. I was fully confident and very optimistic that things are going to be good
^
Oct 15, 2016, 8:57 pm
#5
Used to be 'flymanbeast'
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: Delta silver/marriot platinum
Posts: 2,795
I expect everything to get way worse especially within 1 year(2018 or 2019) the points would be devalued by at least 50%
Oct 16, 2016, 7:44 am
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,166
I think the program will be "right-sized" and not for the better:
-MR suite language
-No more Y24
-A new MR Category 10 for some existing Cat 9 Marriotts...and with the tiered/RC properties along with Cat 7 SPG, they also have to do figure out a way to account for those currently high rates...could see them going all the way up to Cat 12 (60K/night), which actually could benefit some of us at the high levels
-Plat bonus will go up to 1K points (vs. 500 for MR currently, right?), better but still a notch down for SPG loyals
-On the plus side, I think we'll get MAGC across all MR properties, as well as proper point earning for on-site dining
Most curious too what happens to the SPG AmEx....
-MR suite language
-No more Y24
-A new MR Category 10 for some existing Cat 9 Marriotts...and with the tiered/RC properties along with Cat 7 SPG, they also have to do figure out a way to account for those currently high rates...could see them going all the way up to Cat 12 (60K/night), which actually could benefit some of us at the high levels
-Plat bonus will go up to 1K points (vs. 500 for MR currently, right?), better but still a notch down for SPG loyals
-On the plus side, I think we'll get MAGC across all MR properties, as well as proper point earning for on-site dining
Most curious too what happens to the SPG AmEx....
Oct 16, 2016, 8:33 am
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,040
Expect SPG to be merged into Marriott Rewards, with nothing particularly new except a nice big devaluation to add award categories to MR. A JWM in London can't cost 2/3 of the Meridien or Sheraton and a StR Maldives, etc. can't cost the equivalent of 15K SPG points...
There are too many Marriott franchise contracts signed for Marriott corporate to impose free breakfast, late check-out, etc. on them all so that is really wishful thinking...
There are too many Marriott franchise contracts signed for Marriott corporate to impose free breakfast, late check-out, etc. on them all so that is really wishful thinking...
Oct 16, 2016, 3:52 pm
#8
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 48
I have a feeling now that their combined luxury portfolio (RC, RCR, Bulgari, JW, Edition, SR, TLC) is large enough, they may further separate these hotels from the rest of the group and institute a targeted loyalty program.
Similar to some airlines, like Singapore Airlines, that have a related, but separated loyalty earning scheme with their PPS/Solitaire vs standard KrisFlyer program, Marriott may allow guests to earn/redeem points/stays but only achieve elite status at their luxury properties by actually staying at those properties.
Similar to some airlines, like Singapore Airlines, that have a related, but separated loyalty earning scheme with their PPS/Solitaire vs standard KrisFlyer program, Marriott may allow guests to earn/redeem points/stays but only achieve elite status at their luxury properties by actually staying at those properties.
Oct 16, 2016, 4:16 pm
#9
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 4,604
My speculation:
- Requirements will be nights based, with three tiers : 25 / 50 / 75
- breakfast (including resorts) and lounge access at 50 nights
- suite upgrades at 75 nights
- Ambassador program merged in with Marriott's and by spend, not by nights
- about 30% devaluation of SPG categories as they're merged in with new program
- above makes earning points via CC less attractive.
- Requirements will be nights based, with three tiers : 25 / 50 / 75
- breakfast (including resorts) and lounge access at 50 nights
- suite upgrades at 75 nights
- Ambassador program merged in with Marriott's and by spend, not by nights
- about 30% devaluation of SPG categories as they're merged in with new program
- above makes earning points via CC less attractive.
Oct 17, 2016, 8:16 am
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: MR-Amb, Hyatt-Globalist, AA-EXP
Posts: 1,744
Expect SPG to be merged into Marriott Rewards, with nothing particularly new except a nice big devaluation to add award categories to MR. A JWM in London can't cost 2/3 of the Meridien or Sheraton and a StR Maldives, etc. can't cost the equivalent of 15K SPG points...
There are too many Marriott franchise contracts signed for Marriott corporate to impose free breakfast, late check-out, etc. on them all so that is really wishful thinking...
There are too many Marriott franchise contracts signed for Marriott corporate to impose free breakfast, late check-out, etc. on them all so that is really wishful thinking...
And, on the plus side they would only be adding breakfast to resorts and RC properties, since most of the other brands already have to provide those benefits, so maybe not impossible. I'm guessing SPG had to do a lot more negotiating when they added the breakfast benefit across their entire portfolio. If it were me, I would scrap lounge access and breakfast for gold members and add breakfast everywhere for platinum members. There is probably no way they allow club access at Ritz properties, and I personally think that's fine. Ritz lounges are amazing, and giving access away for free would probably ruin them. I would expect a restaurant breakfast for two though.
The other big issue that I think needs to be addressed is only earning points on the room rate at certain properties. On vacations, the extras can be much more than the room rate and it seems silly that you wouldn't earn points on those charges.
Oct 17, 2016, 9:15 am
#11
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,393
Let's not forget that you earn points at half the normal rate at some Marriott brands.
Oct 17, 2016, 12:08 pm
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: check swarm
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, SPG/Bonvoid LT Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, $tarbucks Titanium
Posts: 14,404
I think the MAR people are (unintentionally) lying. I worry not just about the SPG program, but the boringness of Marriott will seep into Starwood Brands.
Here are other concerns:
- Delta Crossover will go away and we'll be left with miserable United
- Your24 will go away
- Suite nights will go away
- Lifetime status will be watered down
- 4pm check-out will be watered down
- 500 Platinum Amenity points will be devalued when points switch to MR
- Zero benefits at select service properties (Courtyard, etc.) instead of the perks we now get a aloft, 4 points, etc.
- SPG Mobile App is superior to Marriott's
- SPG.com has far more function than Marriott.com (example: spg.com quotes an average rate for multi-night stays, Marriott quotes one and then displays them as an 'alert' that you have to click into to see)
I think Marriott will do the right thing with breakfast, but remember, Marriott is stuck in the past with a F&B approach so the bar is pretty low in terms of quality and variety at Marriott properties. (as opposed to Illy coffee at Le Meridien and SuperFoods at Westin.)
Here are other concerns:
- Delta Crossover will go away and we'll be left with miserable United
- Your24 will go away
- Suite nights will go away
- Lifetime status will be watered down
- 4pm check-out will be watered down
- 500 Platinum Amenity points will be devalued when points switch to MR
- Zero benefits at select service properties (Courtyard, etc.) instead of the perks we now get a aloft, 4 points, etc.
- SPG Mobile App is superior to Marriott's
- SPG.com has far more function than Marriott.com (example: spg.com quotes an average rate for multi-night stays, Marriott quotes one and then displays them as an 'alert' that you have to click into to see)
I think Marriott will do the right thing with breakfast, but remember, Marriott is stuck in the past with a F&B approach so the bar is pretty low in terms of quality and variety at Marriott properties. (as opposed to Illy coffee at Le Meridien and SuperFoods at Westin.)
when this buyout was first announced I was like NO....NO....NO.
I am SPG fan all the way. Never stayed at a Marriott ( except few Ritz Carlton hotels).
When I hear Marriott executives say we hear you SPG members and show that they actually understand the strength and value of the SPG program, I start gaining some confidence that MAR management will do the right thing.
When I heard MAR Executives say the aim is to pick the best features of SPG and MAR programs and create the best loyalty program in the industry, I believed them and gained more confidence and trust in MAR management
when the announcement of matching status and transfer ratio of 3:1 came out. I was fully confident and very optimistic that things are going to be good^
I am SPG fan all the way. Never stayed at a Marriott ( except few Ritz Carlton hotels).
When I hear Marriott executives say we hear you SPG members and show that they actually understand the strength and value of the SPG program, I start gaining some confidence that MAR management will do the right thing.
When I heard MAR Executives say the aim is to pick the best features of SPG and MAR programs and create the best loyalty program in the industry, I believed them and gained more confidence and trust in MAR management
when the announcement of matching status and transfer ratio of 3:1 came out. I was fully confident and very optimistic that things are going to be good
^
Oct 17, 2016, 4:42 pm
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Wanting First. Buying First.
Programs: Lifetime Executive Diamond Platinum VIP with Braniff, Eastern, Midway, National & Pan Am
Posts: 17,483
I can't stand much more of the excitement that Starwood brings me with its maddening inconsistency at the low and mid end of its portfolio and its properties' exciting, never boring, interpretations of the SPG program rules.
I'll take a boring Courtyard or Fairfield anyday over some of the scheisshole Four Points and form over function ill-conceived room design Alofts.
Oct 17, 2016, 7:41 pm
#14
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,107
Oct 17, 2016, 11:01 pm
#15
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Jose, CA USA
Programs: UA Platinum 2MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 632
For me the first question is when will they announce what the combined program elite tiers and qualifications will be. If they plan to manage a merged program starting in 2018, then we should hear the new merged tiers and criteria soon as we will earn our way their based on combined stays/$$$'s in 2017. If they don't announce merged tiers criteria soon, they will basically have to wait till 2019 to have a merged program as the proverbial you know what will hit the fan if they wait to announce merged criteria for 2018 until late in 2017.
Bottom line, we need to know what we are shooting for. Right now we know the rules for 2017 and some of us are planning our last stays to make sure we hit our target tier by the end of 2016. What should we assume the rules will be going forward? Should we assume same criteria for 2018? I sort of doubt it.
Hope they announce the go-forward tiers/criteria before end of 2016 as well as go-forward life time tiers/criteria so that we can have a clean transition to new program beginning of 2018.
Bottom line, we need to know what we are shooting for. Right now we know the rules for 2017 and some of us are planning our last stays to make sure we hit our target tier by the end of 2016. What should we assume the rules will be going forward? Should we assume same criteria for 2018? I sort of doubt it.
Hope they announce the go-forward tiers/criteria before end of 2016 as well as go-forward life time tiers/criteria so that we can have a clean transition to new program beginning of 2018.