SkiAdcock

I'm sure there are Marriott elites who will be glad to have SPG options, just as there will be SPG elites who will like to have more options (example: Marriott has a lot more properties in London than SPG), but I don't think Marriott elites are waiting at the starting gate to rush immediately to a SPG property as soon as the gun goes off.

As a few FTers have noted, different elites value different things (even w/in a loyalty program). If I'm in a location that has a Marriott property w/ an exec lounge and a SPG property without an exec lounge & prices are comparable, I'm going to stay at the Marriott because exec lounge access is important to me. To others exec lounge might not matter & then it may be which property they're more comfortable w/ or is closer to their office, tourist location, etc.

I would say your comments re: devaluation are true whether a merger was happening or not. Holding on to a huge stash of points (whether airline or hotel) & not expecting devaluations over the years would be delusional.

Agree. I tossed out January 1 2018, but both the SPG/Marriott emails just said 2018.

Cheers.

Visconti

Except that in SPG's case, while there are never guarantees, one could have been relatively assured accumulating points would be hedged somewhat by having the ability to transfer to most FF with a 25% bonus on demand. This alone made the SPG unique in terms of hotel rewards program structure.

This aspect along with Amex's SPG are the reasons many have accumulated so many SPG points over the years without fearing the same level of devaluation risk that exists in other programs.

SkiAdcock

I've never been a big believer in holding onto points & accumulating a gazillion of them, whether airline or hotel & regardless of airline/hotel chain. I tend to earn & use (usually for int'l F class air or top level hotels). I always assume there will be some type of devaluation.

Having said that, I know some who do so to use when their travel days are coming to an end/lessening & just accept there may be devaluation & that's the price they pay by holding onto them vs. using them.

It's different strokes for different folks. Neither is right or wrong. People do what works best for them.

Cheers.

Visconti

Right, some basic assumptions:

1. Marriott program - for those who travel to more remote areas (for whatever reason) requiring a program with a larger footprint.

2. SPG - for those who travel mainly to their property locations leveraging the best in class value of the rewards program.

Obviously, there will be more in scenario 1 visiting SPG properties than the other way around. By nature of my choice, I don't require a larger footprint since I'll never have reason to stay at a hotel on the foothills of Montana or near the Interstate on my way to Tumbleweed, Oklahoma.

In all the places I stay, there are plenty of choices with Marriott, Hyatts, Hiltons and *woods all well represented. I assume this is likely true with most SPG members.

How would I benefit?

Visconti

Generally, I agree, of course.

Now, with Marriott/Hyatt/Hilton/dedicated FF miles all being captive, burn asap from year to year.

However, the value of the Amex SPG for general spend (which may be considerable when used for personal and business expenditures) creates the ability to earn more rewards than one may use in a given year. From year to year, this surplus accrues.

The SPG program is similar to UR/MRs, a general rewards program where the devaluation risk was tempered by the flexibility to transfer to multiple partners. No program had (1) as many FF partners as SPG, and (2) offered a 25% bonus. This would have likely remained, as it always has, if SPG remained independent.

That SPG was both a hotel and UR/MR program made it unique and best in class. Even discounting the hotel rewards, SPG was a better general rewards program than either UR/MR.

BonnieO

Seth,

I'm getting my 5:1 based on point MR/SPG earns per dollar spend.

MR base is 10 points per dollar
SPG base is 2 points per dollar

bigguyinpasadena

While that is accurate it is meaningless as the redemption rates are totally different. MR Has continually raised redemption rates to the point that MR is a very undesirable program IMO-and I am former Marriott Rewards Elite/loyalist.
I am now in a quandary as to what to do with my SPG points and whether it would be worth achieving SPG status this year. I have no desire to restart a relationship with Marriott.

bigguyinpasadena

VERY good points Visconti ^
However there are sometimes going to be rare (fortunately very rare-it has only happened to me twice since I left the MR fold) instances where there is little choice in lodging (whether you planned it or not) and the Marriott property is the most desirable choice. I keep a few thousand MR points on hand for those instances.

SkiAdcock

I've traveled for years. Rarely was/am I in tumbleweed land; however, others were/are due to bizness. I'm certainly not going to look down upon them if their jobs take them to smaller towns just because mine doesn't, as some have done in the two threads. That's disrespectful.

However, it was/is nice to know if I was in a small town there was/is a Marriott property if I did end up there. Or - having a lesser brand even when in a city where there were full service properties if budget dictated that (ie, being in a city w/ both full & limited service & during a trade show when prices are jacked up, have the ability to stay w/in the loyalty family but not break the company's bank).

And at the full service level Marriott offers bennies as well, such as lounge access, upgrades, increased bonus points, the PAG, so it's not just a location based program which some seem to think. I will grant you, no free brekkie at resorts & CYs (except in Asia where CYs have lounges) is/has been a sore point w/ Marriott elites too.

I belong to Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG and when I traveled constantly that was pretty much the ranking of the properties. I really like Hyatt, but let's face it there aren't enough of them. After a # of years I went w/ Hilton as my 2nd brand when I edged away from Hyatt due to breath of properties/brands. At the time Hilton was more consistent in its properties & program than SPG. And also Marriott & Hilton had more properties in major cities than SPG (although that's changed).

Once I had LTP w/ Mariott & Hilton screwed around w/ its program/became more inconsistent I primarily dropped it as my 2nd go to. If anything, w/ the merger SPG will now become my 2nd chain (so to speak).

And depending on location, there are still cities where Marriotts have more properties (again, London which I travel to quite a bit offers a lot more) & some where SPG will have more (Asia, for example).

But this continued thought that SPG is the only world class program & the others aren't & thus Marriott elites are going to suddenly storm the SPG trenches & climb the walls begging, begging, begging to be let in boggles my mind. I think there's a bit of hubris there.

We've had Gold/Plat elites of both programs post in this & the other closed thread that both chains/loyalty programs have pros/cons.

Here's my take. Those who currently prefer Marriotts will probably stick w/ Marriotts. Those who prefer SPG will probably stick w/ SPGs. Those who might like to try some of the others properties or now have one in a location where they didn't will go w/ the other. They may or may not stick w/ the other once they've tried it. Those who truly think Marriott is the devil incarnate will switch to Hyatt or find another chain. Or even say screw loyalty programs. I'll just stay where I want to stay (as some have done w/ the airlines).

We're probably more in agreement than not re: it's nice to have the ability to transfer to different partners. I used to do that w/ my Diners & Amex cards when I had them. I do find it interesting (and I'm truly not being snarky) in that both threads the comment was made that SPG's hotel rewards weren't as important as the other aspects of it, which given it's a hotel program is a bit funny.

Cheers.

Visconti

I certainly didn't mean it to appear disrespectful, but was merely addressing the point many proponents of the takeover seem to make; namely, the larger footprint. I'm only trying to point out, that to the individual dissenter, that any benefit is meaningless if it serves no purpose. I have no issues with small towns, but don't understand why many argue that a larger "footprint" in of its own makes it a "better" program. It certainly does to those who require it (again, for whatever reasons), but an unnecessary cost to those who do not.

If I required a larger domestic footprint, I would have chosen to focus on Marriott over SPG; but, I had to travel extensively in small backwater SE Asian cities for a prior corp career, hence my choice for SPG. I'm not decrying Marriott or their guests, but merely illustrating how this takeover offers virtually no benefit for me. I'm not concerned about the "whole" while deciding what's best for the individual.

While I can't speak for others, I feel and it's universally accepted that the SPG program is the best rewards program, all things being equal. The SPG rewards program is infinitely superior to Marriott's and the Amex SPG leaps and bounds better for general spend than Chase's Marriott. These observations are not hubris, but based on reality.

However, as to the hotel per se, then I'd agree that one really isn't necessarily better than the other. I've been to some Marriott properties that I've found better than *woods. Generally, any Ritz property is likely better than most of what *woods has to offer. Hotel preferences are subjective (unless based on travel needs, say, to small remote areas) and none of my points/observations are related to personal preferences.

Generally, the places where I travel, there is little difference between Hyatts, Marriotts, and Starwoods. I chose the latter only because of the best in class value of their rewards program and generous surplus Elites enjoyed subsidized by generally higher prices borne by the uninformed. I felt SPG passed more of this surplus to their members than either Hyatt or Marriott. Given I find them all somewhat similar, post merger, Hyatt will likely have a better reward proposition, if only I find the value of Marriotts/Hiltons rewards unappealing.

For top drawer service (the great hotels eschew rewards, since the notion of having to offer a rebate is counter to their philosophy) that stands on its own, I'd choose something like the Peninsula, Four Seasons, Mandarin Orientals or even Ritz Carltons.

When it comes to rewards programs, I just lump all Hiltons, Hyatts, Marriotts, *woods, IHG, etc...all in the same category, more or less. I'm just trying to find a balance of rebate on spend, locations that fit my needs, and acceptable room experience. For me, it's more of an objective exercise than subjective one, where I'd reserve for the above referenced "top drawer" type hotels.

For me, the SPG rewards program and ability to earn rewards on Amex's SPG was likely more important than the properties themselves. If Marriott/Hyatt had the SPG-type value (general rewards and elites benefits), I would have chosen them.

mahasamatman

I offer Fairmont as a counter-example. It's a different type of program, but a very nice one if your travel frequently takes you to the locations it serves. (Of course, this will likely change with the Accor takeover.)

itsaboutthejourney

And same for the opposite end: why stay at a Courtyard or Springhill or whatever? No breakfast, no lounge, no upgrades.

Amen. I remain open to be surprised, but I have about zero expectations that the unimaginative Marriott people will do something innovative (aka keeping most if not all of SPG's innovative benefits).

+1

Marriott is boring; I can't think of a 'destination' restaurant or bar at a Marriott and prefer Starwood's overall attention to aesthetics.

It's a sad day for SPG fans.

nonesuch flyer

Me too ....

I will never make MR LFT PLT

sethb

Because you can always transfer out at a 25% bonus to an airline program which is itself devaluing?

remymartin

Yep - gutted about losing the option for LT plat which I have been dreaming of.
I don't see myself staying in any Marriott properties, however I won't make any hasty decisions before 2018.