OMAguy

i agree most of what is written was not attacking Lisa personally - and even though i may disagree, i fully support and fight for your right to say what you want. my embarassment was for the *few* posts that did attack her directly - even the moderator stepped in and said something.

i saw two things from the post you highlighted:

1. overall guests will pay less - as pointed out earlier, flyertalk members are not the average guest. but unless over 25% of the guests each night at LPM are platinum, then overall guests would have the potential to save money.

2. i took the "santa" comment to be an invitation to offer suggestions as to what you would want - and it appears it has been interpreted many different ways.

bottom line - most of this thread is full of people's opinions about the issue, not about Lisa. it was the few personal ones that really ticked me off - i appreciate the "realness" of Lisa instead of receiving corporate BS spin.

clearly i am in the minority here, and i applaud those who on principle will no longer stay at this property. i applaud those who no longer stay at certain resorts because of resort fees. i assume these same people also do not ever step foot on AA, DL, US, or UA because they charge for luggage in the US.

that is the beauty of capitalism - you can succeed or fail based on your business decisions. i assume most here want LPM to fail, and if this indeed is a *bad* deal for everyone, then LPM will be forced to shut it doors permanently because they no longer have guests. my guess is that isnt going to happen...

Flews

Not true. The Sheraton Toronto Parkway has had an extra "Common Facilities Fee" of (I think) 3% for ages.

Cheers,

DHAST

OMAguy, I'm thoroughly confused here. I can see a hotel doing something to save me money if it saves them money at the same time, say the "green" movement of awarding 500 *p for turning down housekeeping.

In this case, I don't believe for one second that the hotel is interested in saving me money. I think they're more interested in extracting every last possible dollar out of my wallet.

It's really, really hard to tell me I'm saving money when they add on a fee for services I would never pay for. I'll even use your words from a previous post in this thread:

I'm rather ignorant when it comes to these things. How can a hotel save me money and increase its revenue at the same time?

Go back to your numbers in the beginning of the post, where you say that unless 25% of the guests on a given night are Plat, then overall guests are saving money. OTOH, if fewer than 25% of the guests each night are Plat, then the LPM is making money (which is what you alledge in your second quote anyway.) What I really think is happening is that the LPM is using corporate BS spin to say that this change has been implemented to help some people save money while overall increasing hotel revenue.

RogerD408

As tough as it may be to believe, I doubt FT'ers and probably ALL SPG elites most likely make up a small percentage of their guests. So designing their revenue system around us should not be expected.

IF their typical guest (which we are not), would be paying for pool access, and paying for internet, and paying for telephone use, then this new fee just might save money. Those that would not normally use those benefits would now be paying for them thus increasing the property revenue. So these are not mutually exclusive items. Remember, we are talking about different spin on the number.

I'll restate, I am NOT in favor of mandatory add-on fees and feel these should be in the room rate. I'm sure there is a spin being done to not only increase revenue, but to also cut costs, thus increasing profits; which is why a business exists in the first place.

I just hope LPM greatly improves their disclosure of this new fee (if they don't drop it all together). What I saw doing a booking (and since canceled) was far from adequate and probably not pass FTC muster (it does not show in any total cost presentation).

BigBopper

I'm still not certain I understand why a few people are continually trying to convince us that this will save the average guest money. Yes, I realize (and posted as such) that we are NOT the average guest. However, saving a guest money and increasing revenue are diametrically opposed here. If the hotel is truly doing this to save their average guest money and thus make less money for the hotel, they're STILL poor management. I'm sorry but there's just no way to spin this as for the guest. And I'm certainly not opposed to this or any business maximizing their revenue and profits, just do it above board and stop trying to make me drink the KoolAid.

Now, the reality of the situation is the property is doing this for multiple reasons, not one of which is altruistic and depending on your opinion may be outright fraud.

First, they want their prices to appear lower on different websites. They also want to just collect more revenue from the guests they already have. However, to me, the real fraud comes in to play with taxes. This add on fee is NOT taxed the same way the normal rate is. This is purely a move to increase profit at the expense of the government which in turn means that the rest of us living in NY will pay higher taxes. My friends, this does not just affect those of us that stay at the property but it affects all of us. Mess with guests and not many people will care. Mess with the governments money and you can be assured it will not go unnoticed for long! As budgets get tighter I'd expect to see loopholes like this eliminated by state and local governments and I can only hope the LPM is included in the crackdown.

allbrosca

My biggest problem with this is that it is a hidden added charge, like a tax, that makes the true cost of the room look artificially lower than it really is. It is purposely designed to deceive customers. Everyone must pay it so it should be part of the room charge. Please have some respect for your customers and don't insult their intelligence and claim they are going to save money. It's different than baggage fees where you only pay if you check something. That's what LPM has now – if you want internet you must pay. Unless they are going to waive it in full or in part for Golds and Plats who already get some of these services as a benefit, like some of the resorts do. I doubt it though. It's probably designed to make up for the revenue they have lost since SPG made internet a free benefit for gold and plats. It's like the air carriers adding a fuel surcharge that turns into a carrier administration charge with fuel prices go down.

aCavalierInCoach

Great points. Well put. LPM: Defrauding the customer and the taxpayer.

JohnMacWW

That's right. In fact what annoyed me more then anything was to see a post from the representative try to tell us this was an effort by the hotel to save guests money. What a joke.

mikeef

Nail->Head

Mike

HNLbasedFlyer

I think Lisa is just messing with you all and showing some NY attitude. We could debate if that is appropriate or not but I think she knows exactly how her posts will be perceived.

I suspect she has been told by mgmt to communicate this happening - spin it - and don't open the door that the hotel will review the policy.

seaflyguy

+1

sbrower

Starwood apparently has some questions about the honesty of accounting practices at this hotel. See thread about new suit.

wdrg

Indeed

sohony

just curious as lisa/lpm guest relations management never did return to clarify--what is the additional platinum benefit?

or is lisa no longer working at lpm?
perhaps guest relations has been revoked for platinums, along with free internet access?

anyway i certainly wasn't offered the additional platinum benefit when i checked in today. or even offered any platinum breakfast option (not even a "chintzy" one).

tho i was told about the previously undisclosed mandatory $10 fee for the items i previously received for free (internet access/fitness) or didn't need to use as i have a cell (in-room wireline phone).

o and one thing i forgot to mention--the "free internet access for only $10/day" works on my mac but not on my iphone--it wont stay connected to the network for more than 2 or 3 seconds in the 8th floor room we were "upgraded" to.

should also add that "LPMguestRelations" aka lisa does not appear to have posted since december 11th when she wrote: "We won't be waiving the fee for platinums but will likely add an additional benefit. I have a meeting Monday to discuss."
here are all of her posts:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/searc...rchid=15767478
not clear whether she was fired from her guest relations job (which would be a bit harsh for showing a little new york attitude) or simply told that her job description no longer included relating to guests (on FT at least ;- )

Keyser

definitely interested in what happened here as well....i avoided this hotel during my ny stay last month but i would like to stay here again when i'm back in april....but not until this is sorted out....