ZenWorld

I think based on your arguments as well, there is no need to debate.
Even if there is a standard suite available, so long as the Plat was told there is no standard suite available for him/her to upgrade, he/she has no recourse.

Even if he/she books a standard suite immediately online, and it was accepted, you would hear none of it. There is nothing left to discuss between us on this issue.

There was a toilet paper example I made earlier. The suite's toilet paper could be missing, but once there is a full payment, the toilet paper will be made available. This is pure perception. But if a Hotel denies an upgrade, but at the same time accepts the booking for the suite, I would think it is a PR nightmare to defend the actions, and imaginations like the missing toilet roll will magically appear in the suite if it is a paid booking (instead of an upgrade) may surface.
(This is no different from another thread where the Club Lounge entry to Plats are denied (citing overcapacity), unless the Plats pay up during check-in (then suddenly, no concerns of overcapacity). This is a clear violation of policy, and it was stated by SPG in the same thread)

All the points I raised, is in hope that Starwood continues to refine this Suite upgrade policy both from the system and execution front. I personally find it very hard to accept that it is right for a Starwood Hotel to deny an upgrade to a standard suite and yet at the same time accept a booking for a standard suite (trying to throw the fine print really do not help the situation further really. winning the guests acceptance is more important than winning the legal argument here, and this is where I am coming from.).

I see many SPG elites have voiced support for the OP. I think this could be a good case study for review.

Lastly, I would like to say that St Regis Hotel in question has done well on the recovery. They do not get into a tangle to defend they are right to deny a suite upgrade and accept a suite booking at the same time.

justspg

what would I have done? Simple, file a corporate complaint and move on. At least then a record would have been made regarding this. I'm sure if SPG gets a lot of repeat complaints about a certain thing, i.e. denial of plat benefits, that SPG/corporate would have a nice firm discussion with the property. No need getting all worked up.

Obviously you called out the property with the suite booking and happy to see it all worked out in the end, but filing a complaint would have served its purpose as well.

KSA_USA

William has already explained how this could happen.

"Properties forget to close out the sell status on their inventory on a daily basis. It is a common error and one of many reasons why checking for suites selling online is a poor indicator of what is really available."

post number 17

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/starw...pgrades-2.html

rooivalk

read on.

There isn't, but if it's assigned to another Platinum guest then it is in violation of the T&Cs that state it must be given if available at check-in. If one Platinum comes before the Plat whom the suite was assigned too, he can have it. Your argument therefore, is invalid.

Who knows? I'm not in the hotel industry.

And the suite upgrades are the reason I direct my 150 nights a year to Starwood. I personally have had no issues with upgrades so far but if I were to be denied one because the hotel "thought" they could sell it OR it was assigned to another Plat guest who has yet to arrive and it was available at the time of my check-in, then I would have an issue. I've personally encountered my pre-assigned suite being taken away because another Plat checked in before me and insisted on it.

It's up to Starwood to enforce the T&Cs so that they retain the loyalty of their most profitable customers

He wanted a suite so he paid for it -filing a complaint wouldn't have gotten him the suite, would it?

ZenWorld

If you insist that the Hotel is right to deny OP at check-in for an upgrade to standard suite, and at the same time accept his booking for a standard suite, then ok.

OP was at check-in. It was "available" for booking and accepted, but "unavailable" for upgrade. If you insist that OP should pay the higher rate, because the room became available 1 min later after he booked, but 1 min before, it was unavailable because the front desk agent said so, and it cannot be disputed as the agent said so during his check-in 1 min ago, then ok.

But just because you have a different viewpoint, does not make your points dead right, or someone's points dead wrong.

justspg

No, but at least the property would be on record with spg/corporate that they deny plat benefits as per the T & C's of the program (of course this thread is also a record). If he wanted the suite so bad he should have booked it in the 1st place rather than rolling the dice with an upgrade and then booking to prove his/her point.

As has been posted upthread, looking online regarding availability is not always a good indicator of what is available.

ZenWorld

Yes, I noted that. Thanks.

I wish this common error could be improved as like I said, with modern day technology, what is sold online should actually be a good indicator of what is really available, instead of reflecting nowhere of what is truly available. I think it is becoming a poor excuse to allow this argument to continue in the generation of 4G smart phones.

And I think my most important point here is, I think it is really looking quite bad on the PR front to deny an upgrade and at the same time accept a booking for the same said standard suite. It may be good to see how they can avoid this scenario, instead of trying to explain it all the time.

FlyerJ

This original post and some of the responses really make me feel for hotel employees.

My understanding here:

- He booked a room at the St Regis for $139. (That's a St Regis, people. For $139! Seems like a great score right there.)
- He checked online booking and/or Starwood to see if a "Standard Suite" category room was available. Their systems showed that room category was bookable. But, as we all now from countless posts in this form, what is being sold online or through Starwood is NOT equal to what is actually, truly available at the property.
- At the front desk, he was not given an upgrade because, according to the hotel staff, no Standard Suites were available.
- Logically, he accuses them of lying to him.
- And proceeds to book that room category online.
- The room he then receives: NOT a "Standard Suite". Which, hmmm, seems to say that none were available, no? (Instead, they give him the next higher available room class.)

Post script:
- He writes a letter to Starwood - calling out the staff by name. I'm sure this was officially done to help Starwood teach these poor saps about the SPG program. But it reeks to me of revenge. " They didn't give me what I want, in my opinion they're liars, so I'll get them punished..."
- Then, he posts the entire thing here under the big DENIAL headline (thank goodness he took out the individuals' names here). Ostensibly this was to start a conversation among us FT members, but it just reeks like another jab at the property to punish them.

Lessons learned:
1. It's been said a million times here. Online and Starwood room inventory DOES NOT EQUAL actual room inventory in a property.
2. If you don't have an upgrade actually confirmed in advance (assuming you're the appropriate Platinum level), then DON'T treat an upgrade like a sacred right. If you get one, enjoy. If you don't, well, that's life. Deal with it.
3. If you try to "game" the SPG system into giving you a 'sure thing' unconfirmed upgrade (as this person did), then you're setting yourself up for failure and disappointment.

Please forgive my rant. I just find those folks who walk around with such a sense of entitlement (certainly not confined to frequent traveler ranks) to be the most negative and frustrating folks on the planet. I'm sick of this whole DYKWIA, The World Owes Me mentality.

KSA_USA

you are absolutely right, pre-assigning upgrades is in violation of the T&Cs. but lets be realistic.

if there were two platinum guests checking into a hotel at a given day.

plat A is the best friend of the GM ( checks- in at 7 pm)
Plat B has long and solid history with SW ( checks-in at 5 pm)

realistically, who do you think will get the upgrade?

in practice hotel would loved to please both Plat A and Plat B. but since there is only one suite left they need to make a decision. the property will most likely assign the suite to Plat A.

there is no way for plat B to know whats or whats not available at time of check-in. and to tell you the truth, it is none of Plat B or Plat A business to know how the hotel process the upgrade. I personally trust the hotel chain i am doing business with. once I feel the hotel chain i am dealing with is dishonest or playing games i will move my business to somewhere else. I fully trust that Starwood do not train their employee to fool or lie to their client. that's just ridiculous.



I have no issue with pre-assined upgrades at all. there is a difference between a platinum guest who just completed a challenge and a 200+ night platinum guest. if my preassigned upgrade went to a 200+ night platinum guest i would have no issue with it at all. but i will certainly have an issue if I were denied an upgrade because the hotel thinks they could sell it. in this case i would file a complaint to starwood.

KSA_USA

for sure, a better system would be great but for now we have to acknowledge the fact that online availability dose not reflect real availability. this is the whole point of this and other related threads.

FlyerJ

I'll admit upfront that I haven't dissected the terms and conditions of the SPG program. (The reason? As a Platinum for 7 of the past 10 years, I've loved the program. I don't feel I have anything to gain by memorizing the fine print, and trying to work the system to get even more out of it just doesn't have the ROI for me to bother.)

Now what you're saying, then, is that Starwood owes you better odds of upgrades if you arrive mid afternoon rather than late at night? Because if nobody has checked in to a suite, the fine print says the hotel MUST give it to you?? That just seems illogical.

For the vast majority of my Platinum upgrades - whether I've checked in at 2pm or at midnight - my key folio WITH UPGRADED ROOM will have been clearly prepared in advance of my arrival.

So either I'm the only Plat arriving that day at every one of these hotels (highly doubtful) or each of these hotels is in violation of supreme SPG law??

The way i read the quote from the T&C here in no way seems to preclude a property from pre-assigning upgrades, nor does it require hotels to prioritize upgrades for early arrivals over late. It says to me that hotels are expected to upgrade folks into Std Suite category provided that the room is vacant and in sellable inventory. The suite shouldn't go empty if there's a Plat in house, but I see no reason why a hotel can't determine room assignments and upgrade priority in advance.

nba1017

I hope someone from the St. Regis is reading this and getting a kick about it. It all seems pretty straightforward:

The OP booked a room, and was told a suite upgrade was not available. The hotel, after having a bluff called to a certain extent, responded positively by further upgrading the OP to a 1,000sf corner suite as a gesture. End of story? Hopefully. Also, how hard is it to place a phone call to the hotel the day before arrival politely asking for a suite upgrade to be blocked in advance?


My two cents are that the St. Regis Suites are not great suites, with relatively low ceilings and a cramped bathroom layout. I prefer the Metropolitan Suite, which, although smaller, has a lovely stone and marble bathroom and open plan living space.

3544quebec

Statement made (yet again) with no evidence to support it.

Saying that the hotel was bluffing implies that there really was a Standard Suite available at the time of check-in for Platinum Upgrade. Do you have any evidence that confirms that?

AlxStevens

I am very curious about this, actually. As I said earlier in this thread, I was also a guest at the St. R the same day as the OP.

When I checked my reservation that morning, I could see that I had been upgraded to a Premium Deluxe room. For the record, I did check and see what standard suites were available for sale online and there were none except Accessible Metropolitan Suites.

When I arrived to check in I could see a printed list of "Starguests" of which there were four, including me. That paper listed the room class the Starguests were to be placed into (mine showed Premium Deluxe), as well as an amenity to be delivered and some other info.

Clearly this had been done at the beginning of the day, not at check-in. I am curious how this squares with the "at check-in" math of the program. I have no problem with it, but it does seem to be more the rule than the exception in my experience. I am nearly always pre-booked for whatever upgrade I'm going to receive, regardless of what time I arrive.

William/Thyetus/any other Lurker - any thoughts on this?

travelswithmyself

Whoa whoa wait a minute. Where does it say that a hotel cannot pre-assign upgrades to anyone they please, platinum or otherwise? It does not, I've just read the T&C... if it is there would appreciate if you would point it out.

And I see absolutely nothing wrong with a hotel pre-upgrading a client, and it does not go against the spirit of the SPG programme either. A suite that a client has been pre-upgraded to is no longer "available". Any plat coming after me should not have dibs on "my" room even if he happened to check-in earlier because that suite should no longer be in the pool.

I would have no issues if the hotel continued to leave this suite available for sale as is their right, and yes I've heard of pre-upgrades disappearing at the last moment. But they would also have to manage my expectations accordingly, and so I've noticed that pre-upgrades usually only happen the night before, presumably when the hotel already knows how many suites it is likely to sell at full price. However, I would be most upset if another platinum had come along and kicked up so much of a fuss that they had to give him/her my upgrade. Indeed it would be very foolish of the FD to tell me so. Certain things are better left unsaid.


I'm going to chime in on this debate and say that I believe part of this distrust of the system may be because of much anecdotal evidence, especially here on FT, of upgrades being granted only after throwing one's weight around. I won't say that hotels are outright liars everytime, but I'm sure they bend the truth a bit here and there too. For whatever reasons they may have. It could be as simple as it being more of a hassle to clean a suite than a normal room. It would be a bit naive to believe that the things are always black and white.