Can starwood employees file complaints against customers?!
Aug 7, 2012, 9:36 am
#91
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: Marriott & SPG Plat, HH Diamond, Accor Plat, ex-Fairmont Plat, ex-Swissotel Eleva
Posts: 710
Exactly, chinatraderjmr. If you're a regular/good/high spend customer of any business, that business usually gives you special treatment. IME, Starwood hotels do the same thing; and I see no reason why that should change. If an SPG member spend 150 nights in year at one property, s/he is a very good customer at that hotel; and the hotel undoubtedly wants to keep the business. You can bet that that person gets special treatment, from complimentary drinks at the bar from time to time to a complimentary meal to automatic suite upgrades whenever s/he stays, regardless of how many PLTs check in earlier that day. That is exactly as it should be.
1. You are a super regular.
2. The Hotel values your business tremendously and will upgrade you to a Suite even if you book the base level rooms.
In that case, they will not even be selling that room. They would have sold u a Suite at base room prices and took it off from the inventory list.
I think the argument made by OP here is this:
1. There are Suites available for sale on SPG website.
2. The Front Desk insisted none is available.
3. OP called Front Desk's bluff by using his friend to book a Suite immediately, and in 20 mins, check into that Suite to prove that the Front Desk is lying.
There is no argument here whatsoever, IF the hotel decides to sell a Suite to a regular at base room prices. (You can call it a guaranteed upgrade or whatever, since the premise was this person is such a super regular and the Hotel identified so and wants the business badly. This Suite will be off the inventory list and cannot be sold to anyone else, much less it be available for upgrade.)
Now, if this is NOT the case, then based on the T&Cs of SPG, it is still 1st come 1st serve. Pre-assignment is a guide. If you can put up the Suite for sale, it also means that same Suite is available for upgrade. Otherwise, T&Cs are worth nothing? (And most of the arguments here and in other threads are based on Plats seeing availability, but not getting their upgrades.)
So to sum up, if the argument is that the Hotel has a super regular that they will want to guarantee a Suite, they will NOT be selling the Suite, and hence it will not be showing up as available. If they can sell the Suite, it means that it is not reserved for a super regular, and upgrades for Plats should be 1st come 1st serve basis. AND if the Hotel can sell it, how can they say they have no inventory for upgrades?
Aug 7, 2012, 9:42 am
#92
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: Marriott & SPG Plat, HH Diamond, Accor Plat, ex-Fairmont Plat, ex-Swissotel Eleva
Posts: 710
William, would you please comment on the elephant that is still left in the corner of the room, being does Starwood take issue with a hotel holding back, or not holding back, minimum room-class inventory (meaning suites) from the upgrade pool? My friend the manager swears she has been caught in the middle between infrequent guests demanding upgrades and corporate demanding availability be retained for late-arrival walk-up VIP's more times than she can count. Her position is she is not obligated to commit her last few suites to comp upgrades, as many guests expect, and in fact she has been directed to hold back minimum inventory for walk-ups wanting to pay.
Looks like more than 1 hotel are violating the T&Cs, and unless you catch them or successfully call their bluffs, they will continue to game SPG Plats. Not a good sign.
No wonder we see so many reports of Plats "fighting" to get upgrades. Sigh.
Aug 7, 2012, 10:02 am
#93
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Austin, Texas
Programs: Marriott Employee Level
Posts: 31,593
My friend the manager swears she has been caught in the middle between infrequent guests demanding upgrades and corporate demanding availability be retained for late-arrival walk-up VIP's more times than she can count. Her position is she is not obligated to commit her last few suites to comp upgrades, as many guests expect, and in fact she has been directed to hold back minimum inventory for walk-ups wanting to pay.
That being said, checking for suites available for sale online is a very poor indicator. Most of the time, it turns out to be a false positive.
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
Aug 7, 2012, 10:30 am
#95
Join Date: May 1999
Location: YEG
Posts: 1,578
KSA_USA: I am not sure why you would want to rub it in here when OP is upset, and rightly so.
OP had pointed out a flawed upgrade system, and he justified it with evidences to call the Hotel's bluff. He was lied to, and what do you call people who lied to you blatantly, as pointed out in his scenario?
If the system works for you, and you have been getting many upgrades, and many over and above the standard suites, "", good for you.
OP was treated in a shabby manner and he is well-within his rights to stand up to the bullying tactics of the Hotel. He has shown that Starwood has some flaws in delivering the upgrades, as some Hotels blatantly do not follow the T&Cs.
On the other hand, if you have been getting so many good upgrades, I can see why you would let some things go. No need for you to get upset since you have an overall good experience so far.
OP had pointed out a flawed upgrade system, and he justified it with evidences to call the Hotel's bluff. He was lied to, and what do you call people who lied to you blatantly, as pointed out in his scenario?
If the system works for you, and you have been getting many upgrades, and many over and above the standard suites, "", good for you.
OP was treated in a shabby manner and he is well-within his rights to stand up to the bullying tactics of the Hotel. He has shown that Starwood has some flaws in delivering the upgrades, as some Hotels blatantly do not follow the T&Cs.
On the other hand, if you have been getting so many good upgrades, I can see why you would let some things go. No need for you to get upset since you have an overall good experience so far.
I am just stating my opinion. if you read post 22 in this thread i said “if the FD manager clearly stated that a standard suite was available but is holding it for revenue purposes then this is a clear violation of SPG T&C. OP should file a complain and should get compensated. “
I personally don’t call people liars. this has nothing to do with OP situation. ( check post 25,50 in the “fighting for platinum upgrade”. both posts were made before OP started this thread). if something discomfort me i just report it to starwood and they will take care of it.
William is an official Starwood representative. he stated the following
“Handling and processing upgrades is a lot harder task than anyone probably realizes”
“Local management is responsible for deciding how these types of things are settled. Most, if not all, are going to try and preserve the integrity of the pre-arrival upgrade strategy because a lot of work has gone into setting it up to be the most fair distribution of a limited resource”
“checking for suites selling online is a poor indicator of what is really available”
I got the message. I fully understand it and I appreciate Starwood work and efforts. and I trust that they are trying to do there best. however, it seems some still don’t get it and would rather start arguing/ fighting with FDA’s.
Just relax and let the hotels do their work. if you think something is not right then report it to starwood. there is no need to create a friction with another human. one time I was denied a 4 pm late check-out. I politely tried to explain to her that this is a guaranteed benefit but she insisted that its based on availability. i simply reported this incident to SW. i got compensated nicely
also, I like to stay at Starwood not because of the upgrades. for sure upgrades are nice. i’ll request them. if i don’t get them no big deal
I like to stay at Starwood because:
1.Customer service. there is nothing like knowing my stay is going to be hassle free. and if something went wrong, Starwood will handle it in a professional way.
2.the variety of their properties. especially the LC brand in Europe
3.star points. very valuable
4.suite upgrade.
Aug 7, 2012, 10:35 am
#96
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
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I find it hard to understand why every SPG hotel doesn't have a clear statement on its website identifying the select standard suites. In fact, each hotel should list all of its room categories in order, from lowest to highest, and also indicate which are considered to be junior suites and which are senior suites. This would end a lot of confusion and help everyone decide what room category to book.
For some brands, such as W and St Regis, this is more or less uniform, but hard to remember. For example, Super WOW is better than WOW (and both are specialty suites) but is Fantastic better or worse than Marvelous? The names don't help me to remember.
Doing this would also help guests to avoid the inevitable disappointment when they specifically book a property's deluxe room category, expecting it to be nice, but find upon arrival that this means a base room, as the hotel doesn't label any of its rooms as standard or even superior. <insert general rant on euphemisms for hotel room categories, not specific to SPG, such as garden view, partial ocean view, grand, junior suite, etc.>
For some brands, such as W and St Regis, this is more or less uniform, but hard to remember. For example, Super WOW is better than WOW (and both are specialty suites) but is Fantastic better or worse than Marvelous? The names don't help me to remember.
Doing this would also help guests to avoid the inevitable disappointment when they specifically book a property's deluxe room category, expecting it to be nice, but find upon arrival that this means a base room, as the hotel doesn't label any of its rooms as standard or even superior. <insert general rant on euphemisms for hotel room categories, not specific to SPG, such as garden view, partial ocean view, grand, junior suite, etc.>
Aug 7, 2012, 10:50 am
#97
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
I find it hard to understand why every SPG hotel doesn't have a clear statement on its website identifying the select standard suites. In fact, each hotel should list all of its room categories in order, from lowest to highest, and also indicate which are considered to be junior suites and which are senior suites. This would end a lot of confusion and help everyone decide what room category to book.
For some brands, such as W and St Regis, this is more or less uniform, but hard to remember. For example, Super WOW is better than WOW (and both are specialty suites) but is Fantastic better or worse than Marvelous? The names don't help me to remember.
Doing this would also help guests to avoid the inevitable disappointment when they specifically book a property's deluxe room category, expecting it to be nice, but find upon arrival that this means a base room, as the hotel doesn't label any of its rooms as standard or even superior. <insert general rant on euphemisms for hotel room categories, not specific to SPG, such as garden view, partial ocean view, grand, junior suite, etc.>
For some brands, such as W and St Regis, this is more or less uniform, but hard to remember. For example, Super WOW is better than WOW (and both are specialty suites) but is Fantastic better or worse than Marvelous? The names don't help me to remember.
Doing this would also help guests to avoid the inevitable disappointment when they specifically book a property's deluxe room category, expecting it to be nice, but find upon arrival that this means a base room, as the hotel doesn't label any of its rooms as standard or even superior. <insert general rant on euphemisms for hotel room categories, not specific to SPG, such as garden view, partial ocean view, grand, junior suite, etc.>
Aug 7, 2012, 10:54 am
#98
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Austin, Texas
Programs: Marriott Employee Level
Posts: 31,593
2) it is possible that a property could allow overbooking of suites, but the more likely issue is that they have not closed out their inventory correctly; this happens a lot especially when all you can find are pre-paid, non-cancellable rates.
3) a suite may not be ready to occupy at your check-in time, even if it is available for sale online; see not having closed out their inventory correctly.
That's three just off the top of my head. There are probably at least a half a dozen others I could come up with if I had the discretionary time to think through it.
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
Aug 7, 2012, 10:55 am
#99
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Austin, Texas
Programs: Marriott Employee Level
Posts: 31,593
I don't think it matters if I did, frankly. Is this the first time this has come up? What changed since the last time it did?
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
Aug 7, 2012, 11:57 am
#100
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,990
Having said that, I totally agree using the booking availability as a means to know whether select standard suites are available is totally bogus, and I bet the vast majority of complaints based on this method are bogus too.
Cheers,
Aug 7, 2012, 12:03 pm
#101
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Austin, Texas
Programs: Marriott Employee Level
Posts: 31,593
I'm gonna guess the Deluxe Corner Room (even though it's not really a suite, but rather a larger room with two banks of windows) on the basis that this is the only 'suite' to which I have ever been upgraded at this property as a Plat. So therefore, it MUST be their select standard suite.
They call it a junior suite, but I've never really been a fan of labeling a single, large deluxe room as a junior suite. Too bad that I don't get to make the call on that though.Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
Aug 7, 2012, 12:12 pm
#102
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,990
Nicely done. They call it a junior suite, but I've never really been a fan of labeling a single, large deluxe room as a junior suite. Too bad that I don't get to make the call on that though.
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
They call it a junior suite, but I've never really been a fan of labeling a single, large deluxe room as a junior suite. Too bad that I don't get to make the call on that though.Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
That's a 'suite' upgrade I am happy to have anyday!
Cheers,
Aug 7, 2012, 12:21 pm
#103
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: MAN and LON
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I find it hard to understand why every SPG hotel doesn't have a clear statement on its website identifying the select standard suites. In fact, each hotel should list all of its room categories in order, from lowest to highest, and also indicate which are considered to be junior suites and which are senior suites. This would end a lot of confusion and help everyone decide what room category to book.
Suite upgrades are effectively a carrot dangled by the programme to incentivise stays when the reality is that in many properties this is an academic benefit rather than a tangible one.
The more opaque the upgrade process, the easier it is to defend. The process is opaque by design not accident. You may as well ask what the average % of suite upgrades is for a Plat checking in at a property with no prior intervention and the same % for a SNA redeeming guest.
I suspect the answer is something like <10% and <20 % respectively but if that fact were known the programme would lose it's allure because how many Plats would be motivated to stay with chain for only a 1 in 10 chance of a meaningful upgrade?
I think Hilton handles this much better. They make no explicit promises of suite allocation but then occasionally over deliver. I thus know I can expect an Exec/Club room at a Hilton property but find myself in a suite or junior suite a little more often as a % of stays than I do with Starwood.
I think where Starwood really falls down is failing to properly manage expectations. The only chain that gives me a reliable outcome I find is IC where as a RA I am guaranteed at least one room type upgrade (which genrally also give me club lounge access) and thus I usually book one room type below the one that I really want. This gives IC a lot more revenue as a result per night stay than I give Starwood. If onl there were more IC's
Aug 7, 2012, 12:32 pm
#104
Join Date: May 1999
Location: YEG
Posts: 1,578
And yet the corner suite at the Niagara Falls Sheraton, which is also just one (very) large room, is absolutely wonderful; with two separate sitting areas, a fireplace, floor to ceiling windows, spectacular views, two walkout balconies, a wetbar, work area, bath overlooking the falls, etc...
That's a 'suite' upgrade I am happy to have anyday!
Cheers,
That's a 'suite' upgrade I am happy to have anyday!
Cheers,
I got that suite on my last visit. i enjoyed it so much. really nice. next time i visit the area i might just book that suite instead of hoping for an upgrade.
Aug 7, 2012, 12:39 pm
#105
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: Marriott & SPG Plat, HH Diamond, Accor Plat, ex-Fairmont Plat, ex-Swissotel Eleva
Posts: 710
I don't think I understand what you are asking here. Could you clarify taking issue with "holding back, or not holding back".
If your friend is caught not giving complimentary select standard suite upgrades to Platinum members when they check in and the suite is available for occupancy, then she's going to catch a formal complaint that will come with some severe consequences to her bottom line.
That being said, checking for suites available for sale online is a very poor indicator. Most of the time, it turns out to be a false positive.
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
If your friend is caught not giving complimentary select standard suite upgrades to Platinum members when they check in and the suite is available for occupancy, then she's going to catch a formal complaint that will come with some severe consequences to her bottom line.
That being said, checking for suites available for sale online is a very poor indicator. Most of the time, it turns out to be a false positive.
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
Going by your explanation, how are we able to uncover"
"If your friend is caught not giving complimentary select standard suite upgrades to Platinum members when they check in and the suite is available for occupancy, then she's going to catch a formal complaint that will come with some severe consequences to her bottom line. ", IF
"That being said, checking for suites available for sale online is a very poor indicator. Most of the time, it turns out to be a false positive." ?
It would appear that we have to call the Hotel's bluff by doing what OP did. Getting a friend to book a real Suite and checking in within 20 mins. Cos if seeing availability is not good enough, then only booking it and check-in immediately would be.
If there is a better way to prove it, I hope Lurker would share it, as I believe the source of unhappiness is indeed, people are seeing plenty of availability, and yet is hearing "sold out", and when calling the bluff, like in OP's case, it's SOLD! And check-in is successful, on a previously unavailable, sold out property for Suites!