FlyingDoctorwu

Hey, does anyone ever make multiple refundable reservations to see which property gives the best pre-upgrade? For example, if I book Gritti, Danieli, and E&R, I could theoritically wait to see if any of those properties will pre-upgrade me as a plat; picking which reservation I see fit.. I know not all properties pre-upgrade; but this would maybe save some front desk arguing (which I hate)

Just seeing if anyone does it..

FDW

TerryK

IMHO, not worth the hassle even if it works.

Many advance upgrades got downgraded at check-in. Many threads about it and I have experienced it personally.

KENNECTED

If you want a specific room type, book it, instead of going through all these shenanigans.

hhoope01

I'm not quite sure why you are calling this "shenanigans". I've always been under the impression that one of the main goals of most FTers is to fully understand the rules of a program and then figure out how best to work them for you benefit.

While based on TerryK's reply that this may not work, that doesn't invalidate at least asking the question. And as long as its not breaking any rules (and no one has shown that it is doing that yet), then it is up to the OP and others who are reading this to decide "if it is worth the effort".

Now I might agree that if this type of practice became widespread, it is possible that Starwood (or some of its hotels) might look at changing their cancellation rules. That might not be something we would want. So if that is what you are worrying about, you might state it so that we can discuss rather than just stating this thought as "shenaigans".

KENNECTED

Lets me make multiple reservations over here and multiple reservations over there. To me that is a game and could affect other elites at those properties.

Instead of "trying" to get the best upgrade by obviously gaming the system, which leads to the possibility of being disappointed because you've got your mind made up you'll get an upgrade, just book the room type you want and be done with it.

And cancellation policies as well as in-house elite benefits may be affected by this type of behavior if it is widespread or abusive.

hhoope01

Personally, given that the number of persons on FT is probably a very small percentage of the total number of people staying at Starwood hotels, even if this became a regular practice, I'm not sure that it would be enough volume to really cause Starwood to change their cancellation or elite benefits rules.

So the real question now becomes is "gaming the system" the issue or is it possible disappointment? If gaming is the problem, then why is it acceptable for persons to "hotel hop" to get a higher elite status? That is "gaming the system" as well. And possible dissappointment is already built into the system since even with one reservation I might note a pre-upgrade which could then be taken away. So that really isn't changing much just because I now have multiple reservations.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with making multiple reservations and then cancelling (just make sure you understand the cancellation policies before making the reservations) the ones you don't want. As long as we are playing within the rules there shouldn't be a problem. Just be aware that the chances of getting pre-upgraded aren't necessarily that high and even if you get one, there is no guarantee that it will still be there once you check-in. But if you want to make the effort and are willing to take the risk, then there isn't really a problem.

KENNECTED

comparing matress runs to booking multiple bookings at multiple hotels to increase upgrade percentages is like comparing table tennis to track and field.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject.

WestLA-FF

You don't have to frequent FT to figure out that you can try to game the upgrade lottery. If even a small percentage of GLD and PLT members make it a regular habit of booking then canceling (at the last minute) multiple reservations, Starwood would be forced to change the policies and/or benefit rules to avoid having half-empty hotels.

It's not a game when you are messing with multiple hotels' revenue just to try to increase your odds of getting an upgrade. Hotels are currently very generous with their cancellation policies, with most non-resort hotels allowing non-fee cancels up to one day in advance, and some even same-day. To compensate, the hotels must over-book, and no one is happy in that situation. If airlines allowed fee-free late-minute cancellations of cheap fares, their revenue would plummet and they'd be even worse off than they are now. Even some restaurants now require non-refundable deposits for reservations, due to the abuse some made of the reservations process in the past.

Would you want to be in a business where the customers can cancel some large percent of your revenue the day before you deliver the product? Many reservations you cancel at the last minute at busy hotels will often result in an empty room instead of much-needed $$ for the property owner and manager.

I would like to see SPG and the other hotel chains implement a system like the airlines, where upgrades are granted several days before check-in, and based on status. SPG has started testing this at some properties, and I applaud the effort fully. But to make reservations at multiple properties just to increase the odds of upgrades, and then cancel those where you don't get them, or cancel those of the less desirable properties? Very wrong, in my mind.

(Hhoope01-Nothing personal, and excuse the rant. I'm getting off my high horse, now.)

3Cforme

A nice, hefty no-show penalty for a dupe reservation somebody neglected to cancel in time would be just desserts, I believe.

snufl

One of the things I really appreciate about many Starwood hotels is the ability to cancel on the day of arrival. Sometimes stuff happens at the last minute, I know, it happened to me with a no cancel stay and that was expensive. Now I avoid non refundable stays whenever possible unless I'm covered by travel insurance (overseas trips with airfares involved). If this caught on I think hotels would start lenghthening the no cancellation period. Not good IMO.

Presuming you are talking about standard rooms, these rooms would also be out of the pool of rooms available for award redemption right up until the arrival date, not good for those looking to redeem. So, no, I haven't done it and I wouldn't.

stevens397

I get your point and while it is valid if you absolutely demand a suite for a particular vacation, most times we just want the upgrade we've been led to believe might be waiting for us. Let's face it, that's the main reason we work so hard to reach Platinum status.

For me, I rack up a large number of points using the credit card for my business. On the vacations I take, I will usually check out what upgrades are available on points are reserve accordingly. The latest twist with Hyatt, where Diamonds get four guaranteed suite upgrades a year, has made me switch my strategies. Hyatt has no credit card, so I still use the AMEX (altho right now I'm racking up dollars on the British Airways Visa to get the two-for-one redemption voucher) and will mainly use my Starwood points for airfare. Next week I'll reach Diamond status with Hyatt and will gladly pay for rooms knowing that I'll be in a suite - no questions asked. And if I stay at a Starwood, I'll pay extra for a suite when I want it. This last twist has greatly reduced the value of Platinum status for me and I foresee no more Starwood mileage runs.

Of course, all that could change tomorrow!

kanebear

A.) Seems like far more trouble than it's worth.
B.) This can block rooms for people that need them.
C.) If both properties upgrade you and another plat misses out at the one you don't take, then what?

I also view this as 'gaming the system'. I GREATLY appreciate the ability to cancel last minute when I need to. I would think such activity on any measurable level would absolutely result in cancellation policy changes.

KENNECTED

100% agree. You know it's a domino affect. Can you see the Plats calling and complaining that they didn't get an upgrade or suite upgrade?? Or saying that the property is withholding upgrades. However, behind the scenes folks a playing with inventory.

Those that are "OK" with this probably wont be when it affects them personally.

mahasamatman

This is similar to buying the entire First Class cabin on an airplane and canceling/refunding at the last minute hoping for an upgrade to clear. Defintely not acceptable behaviour.

hhoope01

Not even close.

• First, we are talking about a small percentage of people would know to try this.
• Second, it would work for only a small percentage of people (i.e. Plats who would possibly receive a suite upgrade).
• Third, it would be only for a small percentage of the time where those that know to try and would possibly benefit would even be in a situation to do this. (i.e. ability to pick/choose hotel, location where mulitple hotels with suite rooms, hotels offer favorable cancellation policies, etc.)
• Fourth, this would only work in the very few instances where a hotel would even pre-upgrade someone (which we have already stated doesn't happen very often.)

So we are talking about, at best, very, very few instances where someone might do this. So the chances that it would cause you to personally lose out on a suite upgrade are very, very small.

Finally, buying the entire First class cabin on an airplane would be more analagous to someone reserving the entire inventory of suites for a hotel and then releasing them in the hopes that there would be one free to be upgraded to. (And BTW, I do believe that strategy has been bantered about before in this forum. ) Reserving one standard room at two or three hotels isn't really going to take away all the suites at a property.

So the way I understand this:

1. This isn't against any rules.
2. It may slightly increase your chance at a suite room, but in most situations it is just extra work and risk (i.e. you forget to cancel a reservation within the cancellation time and have to pay for 2 rooms.)
3. People here will get mad at you because it is possible you got a suite upgrade that they feel they should have received instead (but they weren't willing to put in the extra work and take the risk that you were willing to take.)
4. It is very unlikely that there will be anywhere close to the volume of people doing this to make Starwood sit up, notice, and make rate changes that might affect the other 99.9% of the people staying. Thus causing them to possibly look at other hotel chains with more liberal cancellation policies.

Note that in high occupancy situations, two things will happen:

1. You probably aren't getting that suite upgrade as someone else probably outright reserved it.
2. The hotel will already have a more stringent cancellation policy (i.e. 3 days, 30 days, etc.) in place that will not allow someone to even do this.

And it is in high occupancy situations that someone might be more willing to try this as their chances of a suite upgrade are lower. And yet that is when it will be least likely to work or be viable.

PS: I've not done this. I don't plan on doing this. I agree that it isn't worth the effort. But what I don't agree with is that someone who would do this would be considered to be a "shenanigan".

PSS: At least in the AA forum, I've seen where people will buy fully refundable 1st Class tickets just to be able to get to the AA club. They will then cancel the ticket after they are finished. Depending on when the ticket was purchased, they could very easily cause someone to not be pre-upgraded. But just as with the suite room, once the reservation was cancelled any 1st class seats (or suite rooms) not used, will go to someone else on the list. Just maybe not you.