Awful experience and strange blowoff (mold in suites at Parker Meridien NYC)
Dec 5, 2009, 4:42 am
#121
Join Date: May 1999
Location: YEG
Posts: 1,578
i just saw this thread.
amazing.
i am wondering what happen to the golden rule in business "customer first"
if starwood hires me as LPM manager, then first thing i would make that customer happy by returning all his points and cash paid plus giving him free stay for a full week at the best suite in house. also will provide him/her with free food, internet and laundry.
at the same time i will fix the mold issue.
but then starwood will probably fire me the second day.
to the OP:
i have been platinum member with starwood for more than 10 years, they are the best IMO, just look at the awards they win every year, i never stayed at the LPM hotel, i was thinking to try them next year for 5 nights, but base on you experience i will not consider it.
amazing.
i am wondering what happen to the golden rule in business "customer first"
if starwood hires me as LPM manager, then first thing i would make that customer happy by returning all his points and cash paid plus giving him free stay for a full week at the best suite in house. also will provide him/her with free food, internet and laundry.
at the same time i will fix the mold issue.
but then starwood will probably fire me the second day.
to the OP:
i have been platinum member with starwood for more than 10 years, they are the best IMO, just look at the awards they win every year, i never stayed at the LPM hotel, i was thinking to try them next year for 5 nights, but base on you experience i will not consider it.
Dec 5, 2009, 9:01 am
#122
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Dec 5, 2009, 9:52 pm
#123
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Interesting thread. There are a few things in particular about the $500 smoking charge that are bothering me:
- At first, the claim was that there was tobacco found and a "tobacco" odor in the room, not a smoke odor in particular, and that the hotel's policy was that they charge the cleaning fee any time they find tobacco left over in the room. Interesting policy, and one that I think many people would find unreasonable.
- The OP doesn't deny leaving tobacco behind, and in fact says "I think I know which one [cigar] it was." So, there must have been more than one for this to even be an issue.
- So, just how many cigars did the OP have in the room? After all, he's a cigar salesman - he might well have had quite a few, and given them out as presents at the reunion or what not. Isn't it possible that storing several or many cigars in the room for a few days will leave behind a tobacco smell, even if none of them are smoked?
- Then, at some point in the thread, it switched from there just having been tobacco left in the room to there being smoke in the room, with no recognition by anyone, including the OP, that the story had changed.
- As far as the "timeline" goes, I don't think this establishes much of anything. I've had several cases where an after-checkout charge takes several days to be processed. Once the folio is finalized, the balance paid, and the guest has left the hotel, I can very well see how it would be a manual process for the back office to add a charge such as a $500 smoking fee. So, I don't think the fact that this charge posted after the initial complaint speaks one way or the other as to the chain of events or whether it was retaliation.
- Regarding retaliation, there doesn't appear to be any dispute that the OP left tobacco behind and that the hotel's policy is to charge the fee if any tobacco is found (again, not speaking one way or the other as to whether that is reasonable). In order for the charge to be retaliation, the housekeeper would have had to notice the left-behind cigar, noted it, but NOT do what is necessary to have the $500 charge be billed. Then, only after the complaint came in from the customer, and perhaps heat applied to the housekeeper regarding the mold, did the issue of the cigar come to light and then at that point it was processed against the guest's credit card. That seems a very unlikely timeline to me.
Based on everything said, I don't think the OP smoked in the room. But I also don't think the $500 charge was retaliation. I suspect the most likely scenario for that particular piece of the puzzle is that a) the housekeeper found tobacco in the room, and b) the room had the smell of tobacco. As others have pointed out, it's entirely possible that someone in the OP's position of being a tobacco salesman who regularly has his product with him may not realize the odor it gives off and leaves behind, even in unsmoked form in quantity.
- At first, the claim was that there was tobacco found and a "tobacco" odor in the room, not a smoke odor in particular, and that the hotel's policy was that they charge the cleaning fee any time they find tobacco left over in the room. Interesting policy, and one that I think many people would find unreasonable.
- The OP doesn't deny leaving tobacco behind, and in fact says "I think I know which one [cigar] it was." So, there must have been more than one for this to even be an issue.
- So, just how many cigars did the OP have in the room? After all, he's a cigar salesman - he might well have had quite a few, and given them out as presents at the reunion or what not. Isn't it possible that storing several or many cigars in the room for a few days will leave behind a tobacco smell, even if none of them are smoked?
- Then, at some point in the thread, it switched from there just having been tobacco left in the room to there being smoke in the room, with no recognition by anyone, including the OP, that the story had changed.
- As far as the "timeline" goes, I don't think this establishes much of anything. I've had several cases where an after-checkout charge takes several days to be processed. Once the folio is finalized, the balance paid, and the guest has left the hotel, I can very well see how it would be a manual process for the back office to add a charge such as a $500 smoking fee. So, I don't think the fact that this charge posted after the initial complaint speaks one way or the other as to the chain of events or whether it was retaliation.
- Regarding retaliation, there doesn't appear to be any dispute that the OP left tobacco behind and that the hotel's policy is to charge the fee if any tobacco is found (again, not speaking one way or the other as to whether that is reasonable). In order for the charge to be retaliation, the housekeeper would have had to notice the left-behind cigar, noted it, but NOT do what is necessary to have the $500 charge be billed. Then, only after the complaint came in from the customer, and perhaps heat applied to the housekeeper regarding the mold, did the issue of the cigar come to light and then at that point it was processed against the guest's credit card. That seems a very unlikely timeline to me.
Based on everything said, I don't think the OP smoked in the room. But I also don't think the $500 charge was retaliation. I suspect the most likely scenario for that particular piece of the puzzle is that a) the housekeeper found tobacco in the room, and b) the room had the smell of tobacco. As others have pointed out, it's entirely possible that someone in the OP's position of being a tobacco salesman who regularly has his product with him may not realize the odor it gives off and leaves behind, even in unsmoked form in quantity.
Dec 6, 2009, 8:35 am
#124
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Thanks for your post and understanding. Unsmoked cigars (still in their cellophane) don't give off any odor of tobacco smoke. In fact they give off a beautiful faint herbal aroma (not kidding), but that's only if you held them up to your nose. The room didn't smell like smoked tobacco, they know they're lying which is why they can't provide photos and have changed their story a few times.
I didn't smell like smoke either, this trip was all about fun with a reunion of people I hadn't seen in 20 years. It wasn't a "working trip" so the notion that I was perhaps working a tobacco trade show and reeked because of it isn't possible.
The quote from the MOD is that the room was filled with smoke - not that there was a faint odor of unsmoked tobacco "The room was full of smoke". That would mean that I had to wake up and smoke a cigar in the room - leave the room quickly so that the smoke stayed there lingering like some bad hollywood movie scene. Then the MOD (who is now suddenly also a housekeeping manager) quickly goes to the room and VOILA...
I appreciate that the poster above wants to look at a hopeful case scenario but in my opinion the false smoking charge is direct retaliation for complaining to Starwood corporate. Based on the Tripadvisor posts there are numerous complaints about mold and bad customer service. I can speculate that Starwood has already been working with the hotel to get them to actually clean the mold up, and to improve their customer service. A complaint like mine would essentially show that they haven't "cleaned up their act". It was important enough to the hotel that they fabricated a story and even claimed to have pictures that they don't have. That goes beyond a simple housekeeping manager trying to avoid getting in trouble for all of this well-documented mold.
I didn't smell like smoke either, this trip was all about fun with a reunion of people I hadn't seen in 20 years. It wasn't a "working trip" so the notion that I was perhaps working a tobacco trade show and reeked because of it isn't possible.
The quote from the MOD is that the room was filled with smoke - not that there was a faint odor of unsmoked tobacco "The room was full of smoke". That would mean that I had to wake up and smoke a cigar in the room - leave the room quickly so that the smoke stayed there lingering like some bad hollywood movie scene. Then the MOD (who is now suddenly also a housekeeping manager) quickly goes to the room and VOILA...
I appreciate that the poster above wants to look at a hopeful case scenario but in my opinion the false smoking charge is direct retaliation for complaining to Starwood corporate. Based on the Tripadvisor posts there are numerous complaints about mold and bad customer service. I can speculate that Starwood has already been working with the hotel to get them to actually clean the mold up, and to improve their customer service. A complaint like mine would essentially show that they haven't "cleaned up their act". It was important enough to the hotel that they fabricated a story and even claimed to have pictures that they don't have. That goes beyond a simple housekeeping manager trying to avoid getting in trouble for all of this well-documented mold.
Last edited by dfyant; Dec 6, 2009 at 10:13 am
Dec 6, 2009, 9:52 am
#125
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OP, thanks for posting the letter from the hotel, but are you aware that you've posted something that states you name?
Dec 6, 2009, 10:10 am
#126
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When a dispute arises between two parties, and evidence helps prove one person's side, that person will often jump a little too fast to throw that evidence into the public realm.
Dec 12, 2009, 3:19 pm
#127
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Shanghai and Bavaria
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I'm a very inactive member what concerns SPG Plat. I'm basically made to stay in SPG properties by my company - enough to maintain plat every year. However, I usually never go for SPG properties for private stays. I prefer IC hotels. To cut it short, we decided to go for the Parker Meridien in NY for a private stay. And I was puzzled to find this thread after our stay. Let me contribute my rather very bad experience that is puzzling similar to the OP's...
- Checked in, booked cheapest did not get any upgrade. Not that I would care. SPG is rather inconsistant anyway.
- Were educated about non-smoking policy, explicitly, when checking-in.
- Entered our room. Room was a non-smoking one, but it smelled badly after smoke. I don't really care; mrs. is, however, rather picky, and can't stand smoking hotel rooms.
- Changed room to a "real" non-smoking room. Mrs. Chinatrvl also can't stand mold in any kind. I don't really care that much. But, well, she thought mold in bathroom was enough to have a hissifit. Changed room a second time.
- In the thrid room. Minibar is not cooling at all. I.e. beer is warm, I rather don't have one.
- Upon checking out (I), the rather rude staff states there's gonna be a smoking charge of 300 USD because smoke was in our first room. Well, no, she even realizes that we have not been in the first room long enough to smoke it up and also complained about the smoke so that we got another room.
- Upon checking out (II), the rather rude staff presents me a 60+$ bill of minibar charges. We have never taken anything from the minibar. I tell them that we did not use the minibar. I am sure that any proper hotel would, at this point, say "sorry Mr. Chinatrvl, it was our mistake, please accept our apologies". At Le Parker, however, it takes calling the Manager at Duty...
- ... who tells me that we would have had a plethora of drinks at our first room (that we refused because of the smoking odor) and we would have to pay for them.
- I have to argue with her for a long time in order to get drinks off my bill at a room that I have never set a foot in (well, not longer than 10 seconds).
- Design in any of the three rooms feels like in some standarized Novotel. Unexpiring. I expected 5* standard by Le Meridien. But this was hardly 4*, by hardware only a 3*....
- Upshot: Was very disappoitning
* Given a room full of smoke
* Mold in the second room (to an extent that it was noteworthy, and I do not really complain very much, but let a very lot of things slip at hotels!!)
* Staff tried to screw us over the minibar and handled it very unprofession, imo.
* Given a room full of smoke after being explicitly educated about smoking charges
* Mold in our room that made us change the room again. No apology. Nothing.
* Blamed by manager on duty and made felt welcome just as some kind of unwelcome hustler when disputing minibar charges.
Upshot again: I agree with the OP. This hotel is pursuing a very impolite strategy towards guests and esp. plats.
- Checked in, booked cheapest did not get any upgrade. Not that I would care. SPG is rather inconsistant anyway.
- Were educated about non-smoking policy, explicitly, when checking-in.
- Entered our room. Room was a non-smoking one, but it smelled badly after smoke. I don't really care; mrs. is, however, rather picky, and can't stand smoking hotel rooms.
- Changed room to a "real" non-smoking room. Mrs. Chinatrvl also can't stand mold in any kind. I don't really care that much. But, well, she thought mold in bathroom was enough to have a hissifit. Changed room a second time.
- In the thrid room. Minibar is not cooling at all. I.e. beer is warm, I rather don't have one.
- Upon checking out (I), the rather rude staff states there's gonna be a smoking charge of 300 USD because smoke was in our first room. Well, no, she even realizes that we have not been in the first room long enough to smoke it up and also complained about the smoke so that we got another room.
- Upon checking out (II), the rather rude staff presents me a 60+$ bill of minibar charges. We have never taken anything from the minibar. I tell them that we did not use the minibar. I am sure that any proper hotel would, at this point, say "sorry Mr. Chinatrvl, it was our mistake, please accept our apologies". At Le Parker, however, it takes calling the Manager at Duty...
- ... who tells me that we would have had a plethora of drinks at our first room (that we refused because of the smoking odor) and we would have to pay for them.
- I have to argue with her for a long time in order to get drinks off my bill at a room that I have never set a foot in (well, not longer than 10 seconds).
- Design in any of the three rooms feels like in some standarized Novotel. Unexpiring. I expected 5* standard by Le Meridien. But this was hardly 4*, by hardware only a 3*....
- Upshot: Was very disappoitning
* Given a room full of smoke
* Mold in the second room (to an extent that it was noteworthy, and I do not really complain very much, but let a very lot of things slip at hotels!!)
* Staff tried to screw us over the minibar and handled it very unprofession, imo.
* Given a room full of smoke after being explicitly educated about smoking charges
* Mold in our room that made us change the room again. No apology. Nothing.
* Blamed by manager on duty and made felt welcome just as some kind of unwelcome hustler when disputing minibar charges.
Upshot again: I agree with the OP. This hotel is pursuing a very impolite strategy towards guests and esp. plats.
Last edited by Chinatrvl; Dec 13, 2009 at 2:37 am
Dec 12, 2009, 5:44 pm
#128
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada
Programs: AA LT Platinum, AX Cent so...Delta Plat, SPG Gold, etc..
Posts: 504
Keep an eye on your credit card statements. This is a hotel that will seek retribution for your complaining.
That's one of the very few bad things about the Starwood lurkers on this site. In their well-meaning attempts to help you with the bad stay they might inadvertently cause the hotel to feel the need to show Starwood management how "wrong" you are - by attacking you and making it seem like you're just a complainer who was trying to get an upgrade.
Did you take any pictures of the mold by any chance?
That's one of the very few bad things about the Starwood lurkers on this site. In their well-meaning attempts to help you with the bad stay they might inadvertently cause the hotel to feel the need to show Starwood management how "wrong" you are - by attacking you and making it seem like you're just a complainer who was trying to get an upgrade.
Did you take any pictures of the mold by any chance?
Dec 12, 2009, 5:54 pm
#129
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Keep an eye on your credit card statements. This is a hotel that will seek retribution for your complaining.
That's one of the very few bad things about the Starwood lurkers on this site. In their well-meaning attempts to help you with the bad stay they might inadvertently cause the hotel to feel the need to show Starwood management how "wrong" you are - by attacking you and making it seem like you're just a complainer who was trying to get an upgrade.
Did you take any pictures of the mold by any chance?
That's one of the very few bad things about the Starwood lurkers on this site. In their well-meaning attempts to help you with the bad stay they might inadvertently cause the hotel to feel the need to show Starwood management how "wrong" you are - by attacking you and making it seem like you're just a complainer who was trying to get an upgrade.
Did you take any pictures of the mold by any chance?
a) Le Parker is not a hotel I would go to again
b) If SPG doesn't make sure that there's consistency amongst all brands and hotels, I do not have any desire at all to keep loyalty beyond what my company makes me to have to Starwood properties.
c) I stick to chains for only one reason: I'm looking for consistency and try to avoid the risk of (negative/ bad) surprises. Money/ rates play only a minor role. I do like and prefer 5* hotels, but also know that somthing like this would never happen at a Holiday Inn. That's why I stick to a Holiday Inn, just as to an Intercontinental. Consistency.
I did not take any photos of the mold, sorry (and I was also unaware of this thread), but it was beyond my (not just mrs.') broad-mindedness, as in bathtub surroundings covered by black mold.
However, in comparison, I filed a very minor "mold complaint" (rather only mentioned it when asked if everything was alright) at the Holiday Inn Lancaster (UK) about 1 1/2 months ago, got champagne, 20,000 points, and a very apologetic house keeping manager. And it was only on the windows that they will replace within a couple of months anyway. So, Le Parker - very poor and disappointing in comparision.
Last edited by Chinatrvl; Dec 13, 2009 at 2:39 am
Dec 13, 2009, 7:45 am
#130
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, SPG Platinum
Posts: 362
Based on ChinaTrvl's post, it is beginning to look more like a old fashioned "scam". Charge unsuspecting customers for "smoke", "mini bar" etc. and let's divide the money in the form of performance bonuses at year end. It is expensive to live in New York City, you know! What is few hundred dollars to some filthy rich tourist 
I encourage ChinaTrvl to escalate this to Starwood complaint process. You just can not let this type of behavior slide!
I encourage ChinaTrvl to escalate this to Starwood complaint process. You just can not let this type of behavior slide!
Dec 13, 2009, 8:10 am
#131
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: TUL
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ChinaTrvl, FYI - I posted your original post in the Master Thread for this property. That way, those interested in staying at this property will have easy access.
Dec 13, 2009, 8:57 am
#132
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I have seen a lot of negativity about this property in the last week. Mrs LoM and I stayed there in late November and had a pretty good stay. We booked a lowest category room (actually with 10% discount after SPG price guarantee) and paid c. $200 a night ++ We had an upgrade to a Tower Junior Suite (unfortunately without much of a view). I thought the decor was uninspiring and the rooms could use a makeover but the basic design was good and we had a lot of space for New York. The property has a great location and was great value overall. We had no smoky smelling room issue and we encountered only polite staff and had no problem securing a 4pm late check out. Mrs LoM did notice a small amount of lightly coloured mould in the shower area but I have to say I didn't notice it myself.
On the downside, we queued for 10 minutes for breakfast before we encountered a staff member who asked us if we had reservations (I have to ask who ever makes reservations for breakfast? I have never found the need to do this at any other property elsewhere in the world in over 20 years of travel). The bar area was also extremely small which meant that it was practically impossible to get a seat (again are reservations necessary?). As a result this was probably my first hotel stay in some time when I had little in the way of incidentals on my final bill (except internet access). Although we did eat one day at the Burger Joint this couldn't be charged to the room.
On the downside, we queued for 10 minutes for breakfast before we encountered a staff member who asked us if we had reservations (I have to ask who ever makes reservations for breakfast? I have never found the need to do this at any other property elsewhere in the world in over 20 years of travel). The bar area was also extremely small which meant that it was practically impossible to get a seat (again are reservations necessary?). As a result this was probably my first hotel stay in some time when I had little in the way of incidentals on my final bill (except internet access). Although we did eat one day at the Burger Joint this couldn't be charged to the room.
Dec 14, 2009, 10:45 am
#133
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Austin, Texas
Programs: Marriott Employee Level
Posts: 31,593
...That's one of the very few bad things about the Starwood lurkers on this site. In their well-meaning attempts to help you with the bad stay they might inadvertently cause the hotel to feel the need to show Starwood management how "wrong" you are - by attacking you and making it seem like you're just a complainer who was trying to get an upgrade...
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
Dec 14, 2009, 11:01 am
#134
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) I have less confidence than ever in tripadvisor.comAs to all this talk of mold - for Pete's sake, I can buy a bottle of root-killing mold remover at my local supermarket for $4 - spray it on, the mold is killed in minutes. A light spray every few days keeps it away.
Is it that hard to keep a bathroom free of mold??
As to the LPM as a hotel - age takes its toll on NYC properties in a rather bad way if they are not kept up, and the downturn happens quickly. A hotel can go from a 5* showpiece to a 2* fleabag in no time if the proper upkeep and maintenance are not performed. What passes for upkeep at a Sheraton in Peoria won't cut in NYC - so it's a shame to see so many formerly nice properties turn into sad dumps because their ownership refuses to do the necessary maintenance.
Dec 14, 2009, 11:15 am
#135
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But, to be clear here, you're not suggesting that the LPM has turned into a "sad dump" are you? I've had nothing but really excellent stays here and have heartily recommended it to many others, who've likewise had great experiences.
In no way am I diminishing the stories of others here on FT who are reporting very different experiences than mine -- I have no reason to disbelieve any of what they report. Were I in their shoes, I'd also be upset and unhappy.
But, in fairness all around, outside of a small percentage of really bad reviews, this property still seems to garner solid reviews from most. I think it would be quite unfair if someone considering a stay at this hotel stumbled upon this thread and came away thinking that it had turned into a "fleabag" or a "dump." In my experience, it's a very solid property in a great location. It does appear that, in some cases, there must be a few employees who are less than wonderful.