terminalfive

I probably wasn't clear

One point is legal - here I think we agree that the situation vis a vis "terms and conditions" is fairly clear

One point is brand image / improving customer relations. Is there no way of "improving" the transition out of a brand / SPG group? Shouldn't the client, at least be attempted to be given a minumum advance notice of changes so as not to make advance bookings??

SPG's position holds?? Only on terms and conditions - it becomes entirely reliant on common sense and the fact that hotels will be willing to cancel reservations. Risky

sethb

It was a number of years ago, and I don't remember the details, but I do remember receiving credit for a stay at a hotel that left the program after I made my reservation and before I stayed there.

bocastephen

I noticed that the Starwood/Le Meridian "50% off second night" promo banner ads are still featuring the Sunny Isles property - that should be corrected lickety split.

3Cforme

There's always room for improvement.

Telling customers not to book because a property will cease being a Starwood in 30/60/90 days diminishes the value of the property to Starwood (they see a slowdown in fees collected), to the new franchise (in several possible ways), and thus reduces value to the real state owner. You're simply spitting into the wind if substantial advanced notice is your expectation. As I noted earlier, legislatures and the (U.S., anyway) courts aren't going to take this up against the commercial interests.

Let's try a redirect: Define an acceptable outcome for customers holding reservations for arrival after a property reflags. Describe something you wish to become the industry standard. To have a chance of commercial acceptance it should meet three satisficing criteria:

1. It can't cost the new flag franchise anything. (They don't care if you stay with Starwood; indeed, they prefer you to be property-loyal, not old-chain-loyal.)

2. It can't cost the property owner anything. (They're the ones approving sales transactions, looking to maximize profit.)

3. It can't cost Starwood much, if anything. (They want happy guests, but Lurker isn't authorized to disburse $500 every time somebody whines about absence of a smile at check-in.)

Your solution should be robust, able to handle lots of guests (there are 1,000 room hotels, after all); lots of properties exiting at once (think of the mass termination of outdoor-entry Hamption Inns a few years ago); and suited for properties where room rates range from $75/night to $1,000/night (yes, it's possible to spend more or less).

Offer a solution for paid reservations, award reservations, or both.

terminalfive

Interesting points 3Cforme and on this subject - in my view - there is certainly room for improvement

I'm not totally convinced that the "transition" period would necessarily be that affected on the booking front. LM Sunny Isles leaves SPG on 5 november - had I known that earlier I would not have cancelled my reservation because my reservation was before 5 november. It would only slightly bother me that the hotel was leaving LM / SPG if when I stay the hotel is still in the chain. I would still receive all the benefits and ultimately it would have little affect on my choice of hotel

Anyway I believe that transparancy is always the winner. If a hotel - any hotel - is to leave a group / chain etc the customer should know quickly. At least thats my take for what its worth^

terminalfive

NEW UPDATE
LM SUNNY ISLES will actually leave SPG / LM on 12 of november

Didn't realise and ended up staying in WESTIN DIPLOMAT. Excellent property and great club lounge^^

merrickdb

I'd strongly disagree, particularly for platinums. If I make a non-refundable reservation at a property, I'm entering into a contract to pay x for a room, lounge access, and an upgrade to the best room available at check-in, along with some points that have a monetary value and potentially as much as half a free night (during promotions like the Mastercard Asia/Pacific promo going on now). There's no question that the property would be materially violating the contract by not giving lounge access, an upgrade, points, etc.

aviators99

Why does it have to be the absence of point earnings? The hotel certainly would be undergoing a major change, points or not. There's a certain standard of service that comes with the SPG brand. Outside of this message board, people book hotels for their standard of service (after price).

I suggest that any court of law would rule that the contract was breeched on the part of the hotel, and would order the money to be refunded (so long as the stay hadn't occurred). That is why (if you press it), any of these outgoing hotels will refund the money on a prepaid reservation from before the change was announced.

SPG cannot warrant that, of course, because SPG will have no control over what the hotel does with its money.

l etoile

Kind of funny, but this is still (as of today) a choice on the Design Your SPG Card feature.

terminalfive

This time - after two postponements - the date was for real.

LM sunny isles no longer part of SPG and longer to be found on spg.com

Anyone knows which chain it is in now?

davidw70

It is now the Marenas Resort, part of Preferred Hotels and Resorts.

http://www.marenasresortmiami.com/

terminalfive

Thanks davidw70!!!^

sc flier

Interesting that the domain name was only registered on Nov 6! Did they not decide on a name until just this month?

In the discussion in this thread, I see no mention of the dilemma caused by drifting departure dates. If a hotel thinks that it will probably depart on Oct 6 but might push out the date to Nov 6, what should they actually disclose? If they are still trying to negotiate a deal to continue with Starwood, should they be exempt from announcing a departure date?

If the restrictions were made too strict, I fear that hotels would hide their departure date as long as possible. In most cases, more notice is provided, and I'm thankful for that courtesy.

I think that the Sheraton and Westin Grand Bahama gave more than 6 months notice before their June 30, 2009 departure. That may have cost the hotels a lot since SPG stopped a lot of their marketing efforts for those hotels after the announcement. And without the chance of a Platinum upgrade, I have no plans to return to them. And I certainly would not have bought an advance, non-refundable rate knowing that it's possible that the hotel could have decided to leave SPG early.

I expect that some court cases will one day decide this issue of whether a hotel changing brands legally constitutes a change in the product purchased. (Though probably not as clearly as for airlines.) Until then, I suspect that the answer might not be the same for all buyers. If a buyer can demonstrate that the brand was a key component of their purchase decision, a court (and credit card company attorney) might agree. But if I booked a Comfort Suites (for which I have hardly any affiliation or history of stays) and it changed brands to an independent brand, I would not have a strong argument that the change in brand significantly diminished the value of my purchase. However, someone else who frequently stays with Comfort Suites may be able to demonstrate that the same change in brands was a substantial change in product for them.

If the change cannot be demonstrated to be significant, then the program T&Cs probably cover the issue. If the change can be demonstrated to be significant (and I think that many elite members could demonstrate that for many hotels), then I think that the clause in the T&Cs probably would not hold up well in court or to a credit card company's attorney.

In a lot of cases, the answer to the issue may lie in how or where the reservation was booked. Is a reservation a contract between you and Starwood or between you and the hotel? (I have not reviewed the T&Cs to see if they address this, but I'm sure that it's been discussed in previous threads.)

terminalfive

Wow!!! Don't like their new web page very much though

Hotel appears to be much more expensive than when under SPG when occasionally they had rates at 120$...

As for the other points in your post some have been discussed over the thread and I have made my views pretty clear

Certainly pre-paying stays is something I am becoming very reluctant in doing

scubadu

Is there much more blood to squeeze out of this turnip?

Regards