GONE: LM sunny isles left spg - given 11 days notice
Oct 2, 2009, 3:59 pm
#16
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MCO-The Mouse House
Programs: AA EXPlt, SPG Plt, Nat EE
Posts: 1,542
I don't understand how a property in this situation can hold you to a non refundable rate. I would think there are grounds to show the contract was entered into under fraudulent terms.
As for SPG not giving credit or benefits, that's understandable. Can't expect to get points when there's no one to pay for them.
I liked this property. I'm going to miss it.
As for SPG not giving credit or benefits, that's understandable. Can't expect to get points when there's no one to pay for them.
I liked this property. I'm going to miss it.
Oct 2, 2009, 5:04 pm
#17
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,039
"At December 31, 2008, our hotel portfolio included owned, leased, managed and franchised hotels totaling 942 hotels with approximately 285,000 rooms in approximately 100 countries, and is comprised of 69 hotels that we own or lease or in which we have a majority equity interest, 436 hotels managed by us on behalf of third-party owners (including entities in which we have a minority equity interest) and 437 hotels for which we receive franchise fees."
Source: http://www.starwoodhotels.com/corpor...pany_info.html
By my math that means about 7% could be roughly considered not "franchised." Not sure you can plan your travels around that...
Regards
Oct 2, 2009, 5:57 pm
#18
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 89
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External...xUeXBlPTM=&t=1
Oct 3, 2009, 1:52 am
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Italy 90% - Rest of the World 10%
Programs: Marriott + Hilton. Fly BA and AZ
Posts: 2,912
It's possible to know which ones are owned. By deduction, the rest are managed by Starwood or franchisees....
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External...xUeXBlPTM=&t=1
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External...xUeXBlPTM=&t=1
Replying also to scubadu am very surprised at the "7%" ownership. Would have thought it to be higher...
But still in Italy they actually have a lot of "owned" hotels. All major cities - Rome (2), Milan, Florence (2) and Venice covered
Looks like I'll go back to the Tuscany in NYC...^
I can't immagine how I would feel had I booked five days prepaid in a NYC hotel on a 300$ + room rate...
Oct 3, 2009, 2:03 am
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Italy 90% - Rest of the World 10%
Programs: Marriott + Hilton. Fly BA and AZ
Posts: 2,912
Personally I put SPG on a different level to Marriott and Hilton (I even vote for SPG in the freddie awards - normally I'm totally adverse to "voting") so it doesn't really make me feel a lot better to know that "everybody does it"
I think most would agree with me though that if a hotel leaves the chain 11 days notice is far to little
Creates chaos for the customer but also for SPG
This hotel is still listed in the 1000 points bonus scheme
http://www.starwoodpromos.com/starpo...EM=Q309_MT_NAD
No mention there either that it is leaving SPG
Oct 3, 2009, 12:29 pm
#21
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 89
Don't count on the Italian properties remaining w Starwood forever. If they could ever get 20x EBITDA for them again, they'd be sold in an instant.
Oct 3, 2009, 4:05 pm
#22
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,039
Regards
Oct 3, 2009, 6:23 pm
#23
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: RTW
Programs: MR Ag, LH FTL
Posts: 947
No. While T&C may sound similar, the practice is different, at least at Marriott. I have had 4 reservations at hotels that left Marriott, and every single time I was contacted months ahead and offered to be moved to properties nearby (at the same rate) if I wished. There was also a notice displayed at property webpages about them leaving Marriott system. I was quite pleased how they handled the situation.
Oct 4, 2009, 6:37 am
#24
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Florida - Delta Charter DM/3.3MM; Lifetime SPG Plat; HH Gold;
Posts: 1,789
Oct 4, 2009, 5:21 pm
#25
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: SPG Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 12
I'm a little surprised to hear "industry standard" as a reason to not have a better arrangement. IMHO, Starwood offers great hotels and a loyalty program that is above the industry standard. Couldn't the contracts be written to better protect SPG members that have reservations in place prior to the property leaving the program (or placed prior to notification that appears on while booking a room)?
Oct 4, 2009, 11:57 pm
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,230
It shouldn't matter. Starwood can sell a hotel just as "easily" as a third-party owned hotel can leave the system. It's true that we often may know which Starwood-owned hotels are for sale, but that doesn't mean a deal can't come together quickly with minimal notice. So you may be left in the lurch just as easily with an owned hotel as with a franchised/managed hotel.
Oct 5, 2009, 12:34 am
#27
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Singapore
Programs: SPG
Posts: 4,002
I'm a little surprised to hear "industry standard" as a reason to not have a better arrangement. IMHO, Starwood offers great hotels and a loyalty program that is above the industry standard. Couldn't the contracts be written to better protect SPG members that have reservations in place prior to the property leaving the program (or placed prior to notification that appears on while booking a room)?
If the contracts are written in such a way that properties are not allowed to leave the program if no proper notification have been given prior to the departure, I doubt you will find many properties under the loyalty program. I will leave the reasons to your evaluation.
There are of course, examples in which ample time is given to guests upon the departure date but most of them are done out of good will, especially based on the existing relationships between the owners and the hotel chain.
[email protected]
Thyetus Lee | Online Forum Coordinator(AP)
Starwood Customer Contact Centre (AP) Pte Ltd
Oct 5, 2009, 10:04 am
#28
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Austin, Texas
Programs: Marriott Employee Level
Posts: 31,593
No. While T&C may sound similar, the practice is different, at least at Marriott. I have had 4 reservations at hotels that left Marriott, and every single time I was contacted months ahead and offered to be moved to properties nearby (at the same rate) if I wished. There was also a notice displayed at property webpages about them leaving Marriott system. I was quite pleased how they handled the situation.
The Hilton experience I gave was an entirely separate post. Marriott wasn't mentioned at all.
Starwood is going to do everything it can to contact members as soon as possible when something like this happens. But, even then, sometimes the message does not get delivered, for whatever reason.
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]
Oct 5, 2009, 11:33 am
#29
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Italy 90% - Rest of the World 10%
Programs: Marriott + Hilton. Fly BA and AZ
Posts: 2,912
William - hate to be "boring" on this point but I still think it could be clearer on the spg.com website. In Italian it still isn't clear that the hotel is exiting spg from 13 October whereas on English it clearly states so on the reservation page
Oct 5, 2009, 11:42 am
#30
Company Representative - Starwood
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Austin, Texas
Programs: Marriott Employee Level
Posts: 31,593
Best regards,
William R. Sanders
Online Guest Feedback Coordinator
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide
[email protected]