Stay with Skyteam or join *A?
 

Dear all!
I have been lurking around FT for a while, and now it’s time for me to jump in!

I have just relocated to Montreal, QC and I am wondering if this relocation should alter my current and long timed loyalty to Skyteam and more specifically to AF.

Before moving to Canada, I was living in Paris, France and was traveling mostly to Western Africa, with AF for my business trips and to Asia for my vacations, thus enabling me to achieve and renew my Platinum status with AF / Flying Blue since 3 years.

Since 2005, I have been flying around 100,000 EQM per year, thanks to my personal and business flying pattern.
For my vacations, I manage to book the cheapest 100% miles earning class in coach (up to 8hr flight time) or discount business class (Z fare with AF) for longer flights. I have flown international First Class only once, a mile redemption with AF and as you can easily imagine, I loved it!

Now that my home airport is YUL, my flying pattern is going to change form a geographical point of view: even though I will keep visiting relatives and friends in France (CDG and NCE), my business trips will mostly be within Canada and to Middle East (DOH).
My vacations will remain to Europe (short trips, mini-breaks) and to Asia (1-2 times a year).
My company travel policy is quite generic: below 5hrs flight time: coach class / 5hrs and more: business class. No agreement with any airlines, the travel department books the cheapest business class ticket for your given dates.

I like AF and I find easily my way through CDG, but considering my new hometown and new business areas, I assume I could achieve Senator with M&M or SuperElite with AC, which are the 2 FFP I am currently considering.

Easy question, is it worth it for me to leave AF for good and switch to *A?

Moreover I am willing to treat myself with Good Deals Premium Fares with are mostly on *A carriers and would enable me to eventually experience SQ.

My main goal with my FFP is to achieve Elite status enabling me to access lounges when flying coach class, checking at elite counters and upgrade feasibility.

I hope I have given enough info for you guys to help me with this cornelian choice!
Thank you so much in advance for your answers.

Gabriella

Welcome to FlyerTalk, Gabriella!

Don't have any answers for you based on direct experience, I am sure others will.

For a start, you might look at http://www.staralliance.com to see what routes *A has that would best match your travel patterns. For example, YUL-DOH had this as being the most direct:
Leg 1 - Air Canada 874 -
20:00 Montreal Trudeau QC (YUL), CA - 08:55 Frankfurt (FRA), DE (3641 miles) Total distance 6490 miles
6h55m Air Canada 874, Breakfast/Meal, 77W
Check flight status
Leg 2 - Lufthansa 618 -
10:45 Frankfurt (FRA), DE - 17:40 Doha (DOH), QA (2849 miles)
5h55m Lufthansa 618, No Meals Served, Airbus Industrie A330-300
Check flight status

There were additional AC, UA, and LH flights shown, but with a greater number of connections.

Thank you for your answer qfrodo
I have indeed noticed the FRA routing.
Another possibility might be YUL-IAD-DOH, as UA codeshares the non-stop QR flight.
But I assume such a flight is not eligible for EQM accrual...

During my long hours lurking around FT, I have realized that BD DiamondClub is quite popular among the *A FFFamily.
However I am quite annoyed by using a FFP whose I will never fly the airline. Is it a well-founded fear?

Gabriella

It's true that from Canada to Asia, SkyTeam options are limited, and within Canada, of course AC is your only alliance-airline choice.

On the other hand, traveling from YUL to Europe or the Middle East, Star and SkyTeam are pretty much equivalent. (I just took KL's AMS-(DMM)-DOH flight last week, which is a fine option.)

I currently have Elite Plus with SkyTeam (NW) and Gold with Star Alliance (UA), with travel patterns quite similar to yours: business trips mostly to the Middle East (usually in paid C), lots of flying within North America O/D'ing from *A hubs (in the U.S., mostly involving IAD, SFO, and LAX in my case), and a few trips to Europe (usually paid Y) and Asia (usually redeemed F) each year. I find that *A suits me better, as I can rack up redeemable miles and status via domestic flying, I fly most of my international trips from IAD or SFO, and I can use United SWUs for upgrades on trans-Atlantic segments.

If you are considering *A, you might look at United Mileage Plus. I don't know in-depth how it compares to LH or AC's program, but in terms of earning redeemable miles and SWUs, it might be preferable to LH for a North America-based traveler. Of course SWUs are only available if you are 1K status (100,000 EQM), which would mean that you would have to fly almost exclusively on *A.

If you are doing a lot of trips within Canada, that puts you on AC. So, I suppose the question is whether you want to concentrate all of your travel on *A or perhaps try to achieve the equivalent of *G on both *A and SkyTeam, which might be an option.

Thank you qfrodo for your reply.
My next business trip to DOH is going to be with QR, YUL-IAD-DOH.
Do you know if QR flights can be credited on any *A FFP?
I think that it works with M&M and UA MP but I would like to be 100% sure.
If I manage to book QR operated flights under UA or LH codes, will such flights credit EQM in UA MP, respectively LH M&M (it works that way with Flying Blue...)?

Thanks again!

Gabriella

Thank you mecabq for you detailed reply!

You were lucky to get the KL flight, AMS-DMM-DOH, because it has always been J-zeroed every time I tried to grab a seat on it.

I am going to consider the UA MP possibility as you suggest; but considering that I will hardly fly UA, isn’t it annoying to join a FFP whose I will hardly fly the airline?

Thanks again!

Gabriella.

QR is not a *A member, only a codeshare partner with some *A carriers. Thus only RDMs would be earned in any of QR's codeshare partner's FFPs who are a member of *A. This appears to be AC, LH, and UA. QR does not seem to be a member of any alliance from what I could see when looking at their web site.

This link should help with more information about *A and various FFPs:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=325688
While the first post was in 2004, it was last edited in Oct 2008. Which FFP works the best for you depends on what features or benefits are most important to you.

BTW, UA is starting a non-stop from IAD to DXB (Dubai) on Oct 26. Emirates is a UA partner codeshare that would get you to DOH. So it should become possible to do YUL-IAD on AC(*A) if UA has no metal on that leg, IAD-DXB on UA metal, and then DXB-DOH on the code share.

Thank you qfrodo.
I have another question, then. How do codeshares work within *A FFPs from an EQM/RDM point of view?
Let's consider that I book a QR operated flight under its UA code, and I am a UA MileagePlus member. Will this UA coded / QR operated flight be credited with EQM or just RDM on my MileagePlus account?
The question can apply for QR operated / LH coded on M&M too.

I would reckon that such flights credit EQM... (E.g. AF coded flights but QF operated between SIN/HKG and Australia credit EQM with Flying Blue, is this rule Skyteam specific?)

Are you sure for AC?

Thanks,
Gabriella

In *A, codeshares are (with very few exceptions) irrelevant. If it's operated by QR, it will not earn EQM in any *A program, regardless of whose codeshare you put on it. And when they do matter, it's in the direction of no EQM, not vice versa.

If you fly paid business class and like to upgrade with miles, I would consider LH M&M. You earn 100% EQM bonus for C and 200% EQM bonus for F, compared to 25%/50% with UA's and AC's program. Furthermore, LH participates in the *A upgrade scheme, allowing you to upgrade with miles on several other *A carriers (details: here), UA has pulled out of that scheme and AC does not participate as AC only uses upgrade certificates good for their own flights, you can not upgrade at all using miles with AC's Aeroplan program. UA also limits the availability to redeem award tickets on other *A carriers (search for "Starnet" in the UA forum) and if you happen to fly within the USA, you can not access the lounge even if you are a Premier Executive or Premier Exec 1K, however Gold status with any program (exept US Airways) will get you access. Just my € 0.02.

You can earn RDM on QR's flights in BD's, LH's, NH's, OZ', UA's and US' FFP (but not AC Aeroplan).

Yes, you're right. But one benefit would be that if you earn *G via UA, then you will have access to AC lounges whenever you're traveling domestically in Canada. (I don't know whether the same would be the case if you earned *G on AC).

But I would suggest that you consider actually using UA for some of your trans-continental flying. It would require an extra stop (at ORD or IAD) en route to Europe or the Middle East compared to AC (although LH doesn't serve YUL-FRA, either). But the benefit would be that if you take the IAD-DXB or -KWI flights, having UA SWUs would give you the added benefit of upgrades to F, which, while not exactly world-class, is probably better than AC/LH C on the North America-FRA/MUC-Middle East routes.

I say all this out of ignorance of AC's program, so it might not make too much sense. And, of course, you could fly AC straight from YUL if you were an Aeroplan member and flying paid C anyway and perhaps be better off.

Not necessarily. The OP states that his company will only purchase the cheapest Business fare - and if it's a Z fare, it cannot be upgraded.

I think it is * by a large margin. since your company's travel dept books the tickets I would say that since * has so many more choices, the chances of flying * is higher, plus you live in Canada. Also since you will be flying to DOH, QR will be a good choice and US & UA are partners with QR. Plus QR might end up in *.

her :D


Thank you very much to all of you for your accurate answers!
I think I am going to join LH M&M; thanks to all your advice, I have realized that I would be able to credit RDM with my QR flights and will also be able to access any lounge even when flying domestic within Canada or the USA. Besides the J COS is the biggest one within *A, am I right?
And for my European mini breaks, NCE being my home airport, I could fly LX, YUL-ZRH-NCE.

Thank you very much!

Gabriella