New * FF program?
 

See:
http://www.btonline.co.uk/bustrav/co...l.ez?REF=10015

Very short on details, but it will be interesting to see how they structure it, whether it will be linked to existing member programs, and whether it will bring in better alliance-wide benefits.

Sk***am has an alliance-wide level for top tier flyers giving common benefits - I wonder if this is a response to that? In any case, it seems logical that if you are going to have closely integrated long term alliances, you should have unified, or very closely related, ff programs.

Yes, and we at SkyTeam just woke up to a new set of FF rules for 2001. You may be better off with each airline having their own program. The new DL 2001 rules are making me go out and rethink who I will be flying on in a few months.

from InsideFlyer, international edition, december-2000 http://www.webflyer.com/@flyer/intl/dec00/pp&r.htm

I havent heard these rumours. There is only a few weeks left of this year. Will this ever happen? Personally I dont think so

I dont mind a new program, but I think Rudi's point about competition (and the good it does to us fflyers) is key. I dont want the alliances to become more of a Cartel than they already are.


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Gaucho100K

I was warned that perhaps it would be sensible to cash in as many United miles as I could in the near future. Nothing specific - just advice use some of 1.6million UA miles in 2001.

Markie-- interesting post.... whats the basis for this? I have a large amount of mileage on my account, as many others on the boards. Maybe you have some good tips for all of us. Thanks,

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Gaucho100K


[This message has been edited by Gaucho100K (edited 12-08-2000).]

I wonder what a joint frequent flyer program with a common currency really mean? Are they going to euro-ize the different * FFPs? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I was talking to an Intl First Class concierge who was crptically warning me to cash in some - I guess she expects raises in redemption levels to match AA's perhaps.

I have not compare redemption charts on US/UA and so have no idea which is the cheaper. Perhaps this is a place to start?

For people on LHM&M flying Y mostly a new program can only get better, especially
if one is based in D.

Peter42, while I'm with you that M&M is much more desireable for pax flying F or C, it even has its strenghts for people flying Y. You get almost always 1000 minimum miles, can upgrade on LH from any fare and the blackout dates for award flights are moderate. Now if they could lower the mileage requirements for FTL and SEN...
I calculated my miles for 2000 and LH M&M performed better for me than UA M+ although most FT'ers would recommend M+ for people flying Economy. But for me M&M is the better program. So, please, LH don't alter anything but the mileage requirements.

LH credits more miles than some other program, but the awards require more miles too and especially the nice upgrade were
increased by up to 40% last November (Europe-USA from 25' to 35') compared to 20
with UA.
I once started an excel sheat comparing the flights (domestic or FRA-NYC) in C or Y
needed to get status or free tickets and
in almost all cases LH was amongst the worst,
for status even with the foreign 100K.

[This message has been edited by peter42 (edited 12-12-2000).]

I don't care for free tickets, I want the mileage upgrades. And upgrading from W class is fun...

You are right upgrading all classes is nice but it is 35' vs 20'

for m&m members based in the USA it is only 20'000 for transatlantic upgrades too ....

They used to be 25 for german members too,
but from the differences in miles needed you see that LH knows that their program is too
expensive :-)

with the 'old' 25'000 miles, the inner-german-connection-upgrade was not included - now it is!

It#s not only about how much miles you'll have to spend, but also how "easy" you'll earn.
Flying F and C there is no better ratio in *A as it is with LH's M&M.

But ... as often said: if you fly coach mostly, then M&M should not be your program of choice.

Thats my point Bernie, for coach people M&M is not
great, especially if you are based in D with
the higher milage levels needed.

[This message has been edited by peter42 (edited 12-14-2000).]

well, my (LH-Senator and UA Premier Executive 1K) inner-european coach class comparison for the flights I take for meetings with/at the BECK's brewery in Bremen) looks like this:

itinerary in paid eco on LH flights:
Zurich - Munich/Frankfurt - Bremen and return (the Munich stop, arriving before noon, leaving early afternoon, is for a quick visit to the Nurnberg Bratwurstglöckerl am Dom)

miles credited to UA Mileage Plus:
4 segments * 500 miles = 2'000 miles and 2'000 status miles!

miles credited to LH miles&more:
4 segments * 1'250 miles = 5'000 miles and 5'000 status miles.

status comparisons:[*]20 such itineraries would make me (I am based in Switzerland; if I would be based in Germany: 30) a Senator; I would need 25 itineraries for Premier Executive or even 50 to reach 1K with UA Mileage. Plus.[*]the status achieved with the LH miles&more program (in any 12 subsequent months, with UA only per calendar year) would be valid > 24 months (UA only calendar year + 2 months).

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 12-14-2000).]

Exactly, Rudi and if you fly C or F it gets even better:

o UA 500 + 125 class bonus x 4 = 2.500 (2.000 status)
o LH 1250 + 1250 class bonus x 4 = 10.000 (all status)

UA doesn't give you any status bonus on other * carriers ... LH does

so it gets even better:

The final portion of my C - RTW earns 86.228 M&M miles (all status). If I'd do this with my MP account it would get me 33.812 (just the actual mileage of some 26k miles being status) which is more than 50k miles ABOVE MP. (or 155%). Adding some 10k premex bonus
would make a bit better ... on the bonus count only, of course.

Looking at the US segs alone (some 4k actual flt. miles / 10 segs) it is 32.500 M&M miles to 7.200 with MP.

Even with a trip like that, you didn't even make it Premex with MP halfway. With M&M you are just 14 k miles short of the 100's.

But once again ... this is Biz and F ONLY.

Well, for me (mostly Y flyer), M&M works out because I had a lot of small hops < 500 miles (FMO-FRA, LAX-SFO, IAD-PHL etc.) and get 1250 miles on all of those (e. g. Sh*ttle SFO-LAX: 308 MP miles (status). For the long-hauls, the 100% PremEx bonus is nice, but I'd stick with the carrier that moves the metal I'm in most of the times, and that is LH for me.

Hey, can we get back to the topic?
Is the idea of having one MonStar ff program for real?
Would the quite strong partners [e.g. SQ & UA] really be willing to lose their control of their own program? FF lists are such an important marketing tool for the big guys.
The only way I could imagine this working would be if each airline were part of the Monstar ff program, and in addition had their own recognition scheme such as SQ's PPS. UA still give lots more benefits to their members when flying in UA metal.
Do post any hard info on this idea. I remain to be convinced that it will ever actually happen. The little guys [eg AN, NZ] may be in favour, but they will go with SQ's view.
Koala
Koala

Well if I could keep my LH Sen and get upgrades at SAS hotels a la eurobonus, then i would be a verry happy camper

j

Don't count SQ among the strong partners, Koala. They are a big boost to the alliance's quality image (particularly to combat the one-two punch of CX and BA in OW), but in terms of weight that they can throw around, I put them in the middle of the pack.

The real powers in * are UA and LH. They have the money, the network, and the resources. The newly merged AC is in the ballpark, but like most things Canadian is heavily eclipsed by its bigger US neighbour.

That being said, if they can't come up with a concensus (and SQ is a big impediment to concensus), then I doubt they will do it at all.

Kurt you are right from your location, I am
near Frankfurt and so short flights are only 1250 miles.

AC*SE: I agree with you that SQ is a big impedient to consensus especially with tight management re image/upgrades and Krisflyer program. But, it would seem to me the reason is for the impediment is that SQ definitely has enough $ (innovations in air travel like the bed and A380), network (right up there with CX), and resource WITH or WITHOUT *A. What is your opinion on this?

I guess the question is where do SQ's loyalties lie, and (perhaps more importantly) how do the other alliance members perceive it.

What is UA getting out of SQ? Certainly there will be some feed into their domestic network out of SFO, LAX and to a lesser extent JFK/EWR. But they are probably not getting much new traffic out of LHR, where SQ pax are more likely to be fed to VS.

LH and AC are doing better out of the deal, particularly with codeshares between Europe and Asia.

I think SQ are more valuable out than in, if only for their utility as a marketing element. But if UA and LH set an agenda, I don't think there is going to be a very warm reception for any tendency on SQ's part to buck it.