lz8028

Just want to post this and see if this has happened to anyone else before. It has happened to me twice in the last year. I'll only mention the most egregious case I experienced below.

Details: I have a UA issued ticket with the final segment on ANA (Narita to HKG). My eTicket terms and conditions explicitly stated that I am entitled, as UA/1K and Star Alliance Gold member, to check 2 bags up to 70lbs each without charge. I had only 1 suitcase, weighted around 60lbs, for the two segments I flew prior on United, and everything went without a hitch. Then came Narita.

The ANA agent wanted to charge me USD 200 for an overweight bag. (it weighted in under the 70lbs limit.) I told her my ticket baggage allowance terms AND my SA Gold status should allow for fee exemption. But according to ANA policies, even if for SA Gold, you are checking into economy class, you're only allowed 2 bags of up to 50lbs each, and since my bag was over that limit, I need to pay or else they won't check me in. 45 minutes and 2 managers later, I sucked it up and paid the fee.

I was eventually able to recover that fee from United directly. But I almost had a sense ANA thinks they can getaway with highway robbery. That's just WRONG...

cityflyer369

As far as *A is concerned, on flights where the piece concept applies, you are allowed one additional piece of baggage as a Gold member, but not a heavier one. I don't know whether ANA applies the piece concept on your route, but if they do so your experience is not their fault. Instead you may have been misinformed by United. Your 1k status is irrelevant for ANA, what matters to them is your *Gold status.

MSPeconomist

Did the OP have a stopover in Tokyo? Otherwise, why was the bag being rechecked rather than transferred through for the ANA NRT-HKG flight?

747FC

The answer to this riddle lies in which airline is the Most Significant Carrier on the PNR for trip direction.

Xiaotung

Do MSC rules cover FFP status? I believe not.

emcampbe

It's more complicated then that.

Ticket was UA-issued, but OP doesn't say what the full itinerary is. US DOT rules overrule the MSC rule if the trip started in or is ending in the US. But we don't know that either way.

If the trip departed US, then OP gets the DOT-modification of MSC rule. Which means bag charges for the entire itinerary is based on the allowance of the marketing carrier of the first segment of the trip. Not only do we not know if the trip started in the US, further, no indication who the marketing carrier is on the first segment. So without more info, no one can say for sure if the OP was overcharged or not.

However, as far as I'm aware, elite allowances aren't mandated in the above. If it departed the US, and seems to be an international trip, would get whatever UA international is for a non-elite, plus one extra bag on NHs end, for *G. So the overweight charge is very possibly correct in this scenario. I think UA only gives 1 X 50lb. bag for most international destinations, but some get 2. Have to check UAs site.

That's probably also the best way to check what's supposed to happen. Go to the UA site, there's a bag calculator, and you can put in all legs of itinerary, UA/* status, etc. and it will tell you what the allowance should be.

If the trip was fully international, don't believe UA issuing the ticket has any affect on the allowance. If that's the case, and last leg was a standalone NRT-HKG, based on MSC for that part of the itinerary, which would be whatever ANA bag restrictions are. Not all * partners give extra weight for elite status when using the piece concept - some just give an extra bag (SQ ex-US, for example). If it is the weight concept, *G gets +20kg, I think.

PVDtoDEL

ANA applied the rules correctly.

UA's email receipts show the baggage allowance that UA will apply, including any elite waivers that UA offers. In order to find out what your allowance is on OALs, you need to remove the UA elite waiver and apply the OAL waiver instead.

UA should probably amend its email receipts to show the most restrictive allowance, but it's probably not a high enough priority given the myriad other IT problems they have to contend with.

dvs7310

Lesson learned, avoid ANA flights if your bags are over 50 pounds. UA is more generous to their own members than partners are.

It's nice that UA refunded you though, although NH did correctly apply the rule, UA is gives you misleading information on the e-ticket since it relects your status.

MM2016

I am traveling on Lufthansa - bought the ticket through UAL. I am a star gold.

Was flipping through the baggage info and it seems that 50lbs is my limit?

I remember flying on Austrian (owned by Lufthansa) and was over and no one said anything.

Any experiences that someone could share? Hate to have to deal with nonsense at the airport - but an extra 20lbs is important to me.

Often1

There is no way to answer your question with the limited information you have supplied. If you read the thread above, you will see that ticket which originate or terminate in the US have different rules from tickets which originate or terminate elsewhere.

What is your exact routing? What class(es) of service? What *A carrier is your "home" carrier? Which segment of your ticket are you asking about?

MM2016

LAX-MUC-KBP - KBP-FRA-LAX. All on Lufthansa metal. Economy ticket - Star gold.

UA 1MM.

Thanks for the help!

timster

The complicated limits applying for *G flying Y are outlined in the *A Reference Guide. for both the piece and weight systems, and including numerous footnotes !
https://portal.staralliance.com/empl...eference-guide
Easier to read in the PDF than in the online version (starts at page 70).

However the general rule there is stated as follows (p12):
"Star Alliance Gold customers are entitled to one additional piece of checked baggage (piece concept) or an additional 20 kgs (weight concept) if travelling on two or more Star Alliance member airlines on a single ticket."
A literal reading of this is that under the weight concept, or regardless (depending on your understanding of English grammar), *G gets no additional bagguge allowance if travelling on a single *A airline.

However here there is no such "two airline" rule.
https://portal.staralliance.com/empl...-alliance-gold

And here we have:
http://www.staralliance.com/en/gold-status
"You can take an extra 20 kg (44 pounds) where the weight concept applies or an extra piece where the piece concept applies.
Some airlines do not offer this benefit on individual flights but only on connecting Star Alliance flights. Within Europe on "Light" fares offered by Lufthansa, Austrian & SWISS and "Check&Go" fares offered by Brussels Airlines, the extra baggage allowance is not offered."

Confusing - there is a "two airline" rule ... or there isn't ... or there might be.

Under the piece concept, most airlines do apply a 50lb/23kg per bag limit for *G in Y.

emcampbe

AFAIK, *G always get 1 extra bag (piece concept) or extra 20KG (weight-concept) than a non-elite would. UA also allows its elite extra weight per bag (70 lbs vs. 50), but LH does not.

Believe LH-Group light fares don't get any allowance, even for *G, but that is irrelevant here since OP is flying ex-US so not on a light fare, and piece concept applies.

We still are missing one important piece of information to be able to help OP - that is who is marketing the first segment. OP says they bought from UAL, but not if the first flight, which is, like the rest, LH-metal, is LH-marketed (bought with LH flight number) or UA-marketed (bought with UA-flight number).

The DOT modification to the MSC rule states that the bag fees will be based on the policy of the marketing carrier of the first segment of the itinerary (and applies for the whole trip). Elite status not taken into account. Either way, UA's elite bag allowance wouldn't be applicable, so extra weight, at least by policy, isn't an entitlement. Maybe the agent tagging the bag ignores/waives it, but OP should be prepared to pay. Would be either LH or UA (non-elite) allowance, plus an extra bag.

Another note - on UA e-receipts that they send, bag allowance typically has a note under it stating that the bag fee waivers applies based on checking in at a UA counter and the status remains at time of travel. IIRC, when I have had tickets which travel on the return is on a different carrier, I have seen the regular bag charges listed for the return (i.e., returned with first flight on AC transborder, and showed charge of $25/$35 and reduced weight, which is regular UA charges and didn't take into account my status, but of course, I didn't have to pay for my one bag since my status took care of that).

mikew99

There seems to be a lot of misinformation in this thread. The bottom line is that the DOT requires that U.S. and foreign air carriers include specific information about first and second bag charges on e-ticket confirmations, taking into account a passenger's status. This applies to U.S. and foreign air carriers that advertise or sell air transportation in the United States (regardless of route) and has the force of U.S. law. Therefore, the only relevant information is that which is included on the e-ticket receipt, period!

The whole point of the DOT rule is that people know exactly how much they will pay for their first and second bag for their entire journey, so that there are no surprises at the airport.

An airline (U.S. or foreign) that fails to respect the specific pricing on the e-ticket receipt is violation of U.S. law, and a chargeback and DOT complaint are in order. Reference: Enhancing Airline Passenger Protections, A Rule by the Transportation Department on 04/25/2011

emcampbe

UA specifically includes the following on their tickets they send out that are booked through them - even when all flights are UA-operated:

I imagine they've run this through their lawyers and they've determined this covers them and meets the rules. UA also uses the allowances based on operating carrier rules - like I said above, when I traveled earlier this year with a return starting on AC, it showed me ACs baggage fees for both first and second checked bag on the return, even though my *G meant I wouldn't pay for the first bag. OP has also not stated what their ticket says, just asking if they would get the extra weight.

Whatever it is, should be on the e-ticket receipt, plus they'll get one extra bag from whatever a non-status person gets if they are *G or higher. OP in fact implied that it was correct since they mention a 50 lb. limit, which is correct for an all-LH-operated itinerary, even for a UA elite - the extra 20lb. only applies when flying UA.

UA also has a pretty good calculator on their site which allows you to see based on your PNR, or type in all the details including origin, final destination, airline flown, status, class of service, etc. That should be accurate as well.

The other way to do this is what AC does, which sends the generic limit for everyone on their emails, and then sends you to the website to figure out what kind of waivers you have based on your status. Honestly, I prefer the way UA does it, but that's just me.