Covid-19 Spain

Old Mar 21, 20, 3:51 am
  #106  
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Originally Posted by LapLap View Post
is this the place?
Yes, that's the central hall of the complex.

It was, I think, a three-day event.
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Old Mar 21, 20, 6:02 pm
  #107  
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In times of crises, divisions and cracks that were already there are wrenched apart further, it’s unavoidable. The chasms run so deep that I’m not surprised that some break into this forum.

It’s human nature to look back and regret decisions and lament failures. There are still many lessons to learn.

However, my belief is that within two weeks Spain will look at England - the USA also - and start to understand what it has (and will continue to have) achieved.
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Old Mar 23, 20, 11:42 am
  #108  
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This is the absolute most nauseating, grimmest story I have seen from Spain.

I cannot bring myself to translate it because it makes me feel wretched and sick to the core. I wish I could hope that this will never be replicated elsewhere, but I doubt these will be unique cases worldwide.

It involves the abandonment of incapacitated, bed bound people in old people’s residences whilst still alive. And this isn’t one freak isolated incident. Their bodies were discovered by army personal who went in to disinfect the premises. Charges will be brought... but....
https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-03-...e-mayores.html

EDIT TO ADD - an article published in English today by the BBC (only outlines the situation though):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52014023



one of the first realistic “post-mortems” I’ve seen (in Spanish)
https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-03-...or-espana.html

Last edited by LapLap; Mar 24, 20 at 1:37 am
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Old Mar 28, 20, 5:48 am
  #109  
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When trying to understand what is happening, it is worth noting that the confirmed deaths related to Covid-19 are almost certainly not including everyone it should.

“...the figures offered daily by Fernando Simón, the head of Spain’s health emergency coordination center, are only providing a partial picture of the true extent of the pandemic.”
In English: https://english.elpais.com/spanish_n...be-higher.html
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Old Mar 28, 20, 12:32 pm
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There are also some positives to take away from the past day.
It's been reported that parts of Spain have reached their peak in terms of infection (things can't any worse!) and the social solidarity at ground level remains strong. Today was a sunny day in Barcelona and my street was filled with the sound on music and people dancing on their balconies. It's not all doom and gloom.
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Old Mar 28, 20, 1:38 pm
  #111  
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I wouldn’t be so sure that things can’t get worse. The nationwide lockdown took place between the 13th and 15th March and this unleashed a final wave of migration around Spain. And when those migrating around the country arrived where they wanted to be, they then went about stocking up on provisions.
I doubt the peak has quite arrived, but I do believe that it will soon. Unfortunately, there is still a (short?) period left to go with some nasty shocks and surprises.
The toll on Health Workers in Spain hasn’t become clear yet, for one.
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Old Mar 28, 20, 2:23 pm
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Our government has just introduced further restrictions on "essential workers" so that may help to further reduce transmissions. Nobody can say for sure what might happen in the coming days. It could well get worse but it might also get relatively better.
All I can say is that most people who are living here (or are stuck here) want to focus on the positives rather than dwell on the what-ifs.
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Old Mar 28, 20, 2:53 pm
  #113  
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Fernando Simon’s summary is that the recorded number of daily cases is stabilising*, and although there are certainly some regions which may have reached a peak it is too soon to say whether this is the case on a National level.
https://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/20...s-muertos.html

There are a lot of Spaniards going through the mill right now, there are tensions (old and new) as well as ugly, unresolvable neighbourhood rifts in some communities, but there are plenty of beautiful stories where Spaniards have shown the very best of themselves. What has been achieved seemed impossible only a few weeks ago.
But the story isn’t over yet.

* with the caveat that not all cases are being recorded and we may only come to fully understand the extent of infection with the coming antibody tests.
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Old Mar 28, 20, 11:15 pm
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Originally Posted by LapLap View Post
Fernando Simon’s summary is that the recorded number of daily cases is stabilising* <...>
Originally Posted by LapLap View Post
* with the caveat that not all cases are being recorded <...>
I might have missed it, but I have not seen any numbers (for Spain) of patients being admitted to hospitals (and maybe how many of those are taking into intensive care). That would give a much more realistic image of how things are evolving and on how health care services are coping.

Concentrating on "cases" is IMHO pretty useless at this point, after we moved on from containment.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 12:59 am
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Originally Posted by Koby View Post
I might have missed it, but I have not seen any numbers (for Spain) of patients being admitted to hospitals (and maybe how many of those are taking into intensive care). That would give a much more realistic image of how things are evolving and on how health care services are coping.

Concentrating on "cases" is IMHO pretty useless at this point, after we moved on from containment.
All I saw is that the hospitals are somehow dealing with twice the numbers of patients who need intensive care than they have the capacity for.
I’m desperately concerned, and not at all surprised that the figures aren’t at all reliable right now. If you read between the lines of Fernando Simon’s update yesterday it’s more or less an admission that they had to more or less give up on that task for the moment. I have no doubt that the professionals at the front line when faced with prioritising saving lives now or collecting data just want to help the patients (and colleagues) in front of them. But it was interesting to see how close Mr Simon thought widespread antibody testing would be, I got the impression he thinks it will start within a month.

What chills my blood is knowing that whilst Spain’s Health Services are going through this desperately arduous and dangerous ordeal which is taking it to the limit, Britain’s NHS has a far worse trial in front of it. I’m not sure it will survive through to the end of April.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 4:35 am
  #116  
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This is a snapshot of the data that Fernando Simón admitted yesterday as being incomplete. Few countries will be providing accurate data at this stage in their own crises, it is what it is.



UCI = ICU
Fallecidos = died
Curados = recovered

Not included is the National tally of “43,397 hospitalizaciones” reported today by El Pais.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 8:34 am
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We seem to be zooming in on the most negative numbers/stories in this thread, like slowing down on a highway to watch a car crash. I watched Dr Simon's press conference today and there are some positive data emerging.
For example, the rate of contagion has dropped for the fifth day running. Within Spain, the virus may already have peaked in some regions. Andalucia's numbers are looking relatively good because the Region has a lower population density and good ICU health services (Regions control their health care budgets in Spain and some of them cut a lot during the financial crisis). Also, the level of compliance with the quarantine among the public has been generally exemplary; the social fabric remains strong; people continue to applaud nightly from their balconies and entertain their neighbors. Amid all the gloom it's imporant to look for the postives and not just dwell on the negatives.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 10:03 am
  #118  
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Originally Posted by HalconBCN View Post
Amid all the gloom it's imporant to look for the postives and not just dwell on the negatives.
Go for it!
I’m just trying to understand what is actually happening. My own perspective is driven by paramedics, police officers and nurses in Alicante, some Teachers and Doctors in Murcia and University Professors in a barrio in Madrid with perhaps the highest concentration of Scientists and Medical Doctors in the country. None of them are celebrating yet.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 12:37 pm
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Originally Posted by LapLap View Post
Go for it!
I’m just trying to understand what is actually happening. My own perspective is driven by paramedics, police officers and nurses in Alicante, some Teachers and Doctors in Murcia and University Professors in a barrio in Madrid with perhaps the highest concentration of Scientists and Medical Doctors in the country. None of them are celebrating yet.
A brother of a friend of mine has died from COVID-19. I am in regular contact with friends who are fighting this battle in the hospitals. I don't need any reminding of how serious it is.
But speculating about how much worse it could get, based on personal theories or anecdotes, is not helpful either. Let's rely on what the experts are saying based on verified data, as I referred to previously. There are pockets of hope - let's not simply wallow in gloom. It helps nobody. Least of all the people in Spain.
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Old Mar 29, 20, 1:53 pm
  #120  
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Te estás pasando.

I have no interest in arguing. Apparently Fernando Simón’s speech can be interpreted in different ways. Seemed straightforward enough to me, but I am obviously wrong.

Here it is, translated independently.
https://www.theleader.info/2020/03/2...h-emergencies/

“We’re getting there. We don’t know exactly when we’ll get confirmation, but we’re getting close to the peak of the curve that we’re studying so anxiously.
In some parts of the country, they probably may even have passed it. But we need to be cautious with preliminary information.
The increase in cases is coming down in comparison with previous weeks, but it could be that there are cases that aren’t being detected in some regions. We still have a big problem when it comes to the overloading of our ICUs.
Patients who pick up the disease today (Saturday) may need a bed in an ICU in seven to 10 days.
That means that we’re still seeing a lag between the control of transmission and the saturation of ICUs.
It also means they’re going to be overloaded by the end of next week or the beginning of the following week,” he warned.
‘We still have a big problem when it comes to the overloading of our ICUs’

Fernando Simón, said extra efforts had to be made – in a bid to try to reduce the pressure on ICUs.

Last edited by LapLap; Mar 29, 20 at 2:27 pm
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