TA

Is it just me, or do others find the physical positioning of traffic lights in Spain totally moronic? They locate the traffic light posts on the near side of the intersection directly above the head of the driver waiting at an intersection (rather than across the intersection where everyone can see it). And then to make up for this, they have a minature light at car-level, which you might mistake for a pedestrian crossing or bicycle signal.

Am I the only one who wonders how an entire country could miss out on a standard traffic signal convention?

SecondGo

Good post. In fact, for a while I've been using the red pedestrian lights as my signal as it's the easiest to see, allowing a two second pause.

And then there's the roundabouts, with an extraordinary number of people thinking they can turn left by taking an orbital route across all intervening exits.

Oaxaca

I drive in Spain quite often, and when I mentioned this to friends they said that apparently the driving schools teach this practice, on the basis that you can't be held responsible for accidents if you stay in the right hand lane all the time.

Of course, how many accidents you might cause by doing this is another matter...not sure if it's true, but seemed plausible to me. I often spend more time looking in my mirrors than the road ahead when driving on roundabouts in Spain, in case someone clatters into the side of me as I try to exit.

LupineChemist

It's true. Priority in roundabouts is from the outside lane in. Normally it works that the flow makes it normal, but yeah, legally, they are correct.

Concerto

Nobody on the continent knows how to use roundabouts full stop and nobody signals on them. It drives me crazy and the stupidity of driving round a roundabout on the outside lane defeats me.

In France the traffic lights are similar and I find the little one lower down quite helpful. But in all these countries, especially Switzerland, the road markings are Mickey Mouse anyway and better suited to a dolls house.

Palal

Reality check - the majority of European countries have signals nearside rather than farside.

The rationale is simple:
1. People will stop far enough back to see the signal. If you can't see the signal, you need to stop further back.
2. When you have complex intersections, the location of the signals shows you where the stop line is.
3. Less confusion as to whose signal is whose.

From what I recall, nearside signals are present in: Portugal, Spain, France, Benelux, Germany (with some exceptions), Sweden, Greece, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Poland, Turkey,...

Farside: Norway, Denmark, Finland, Russia, Ukraine

One thing that bothers me in Spain is the farside signals that don't necessarily sync up with the other signals, and are meant to protect pedestrians. I remember seeing these in Seville, and a few other places.

Palal

Not sure what you mean... in Portugal it's illegal to drive on the outside lane unless you're taking the next exit, and most people don't.
The whole point of roundabouts is to reduce the number of conflict points, and they do that very well, provided the flows are relatively low and balanced.

Capacity goes something like this (in increasing order):
4-way stop (I've only seen one in Europe, and it wasn't far from an American air force base).
roundabout
traffic signal
multi-level junction

TA

I get the idea, but it seems that poor implementation is worse than doing it the other way. Looking at Spanish drivers, they are not going to stop well in front of the light, and the first car will be underneath it. (do they even have stop lines painted on the ground?)

At that point, suggesting that the car stop further back is a lost cause. Safer and more effective to put the light across the intersection I would think!

By the way, Palal, I still remember the good info you gave a few years ago about the noisiness of NYC subways and the advantages of metal wheels on track vs. rubber tyred metros!

Palal

That's the beauty of it - you don't need to have a stop line painted.

Why? What would be safer about it? More convenient - maybe. Safer? I'm not convinced.

Having driven in both types of environments, I personally, don't have a preference for nearside vs. farside traffic signals, provided the signals are in good working order, are visible from far enough away, and are well-timed.

BTW. There is a big psychological difference between driving in North America vs. Europe ... in N. America you have to follow all signs and signals. In Europe you also have to think - who has the right of way, etc. In that case, I prefer North America, though in practice that means we have worse drivers (who only know how to follow rules), compared to Europe.

You mean this post? One of my late night ramblings

Koby

Really? I have driven in lots of European countries and have never noticed any real differences in where the traffic lights are placed.
Did the OP maybe want to write "how did the whole continent of Europe get the positioning of traffic lights wrong?"?

Palal

You do have cases, where traffic lights are on the farside of the intersection as mentioned above.