Man Says Airline Grounded Him For His Girth
Sep 8, 2009, 9:33 am
#1
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Man Says Airline Grounded Him For His Girth
the story sounds incorrect to me. i thought the policy was that the pax needed to buy 2 tix, and if the plane wasn't full, he'd get refunded for 1 ticket. i wonder if the plane going to vegas was empty. but coming back it was full, so they denied boarding to him because he didn't buy 2 tix.
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/Emery.O...2.1169253.html
They say what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. But one south suburban couple found themselves forced to stay in Vegas a lot longer they wanted.
CBS 2's Mike Puccinelli reports that their trip out West went South when a man claimed he was picked on because of his size.
The man flew from Midway Airport to Las Vegas without incident. But when he tried to fly home to Midway several days later, he says he was prevented from doing so because of his girth.
(snip)
For that reason, this 6-foot, 350-pound man says he was barred from flying home with his wife. Orto says he was 20 feet from getting on the plane when he was stopped.
"She hustled after me and grabbed me and she said 'Can you sit in an airplane seat with the arms down?' I told her yes, I could sit in the seat with the arms down, I've flown many times and never had a problem. And she said, 'Well, you're not flying today.'"
(snip)
Emery Orto says what's most bothersome to him is that Southwest never tested whether he could actually fit in a seat with the arms down.
"That is absolutely my problem. They didn't test me in any way," he said.
(snip)
Southwest says its policy has been in place for years and that Orto was arguing with an elevated voice in a belligerent tone. The airline also says that at least four passengers said they weren't comfortable flying after watching Orto lose his temper.
Southwest says in the end it was the anger issue that ultimately eclipsed the weight issue that led to Orto being barred from the plane.
So why was he allowed to fly to Vegas in the first place? Southwest says the Chicago crew simply made a mistake.
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/Emery.O...2.1169253.html
They say what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. But one south suburban couple found themselves forced to stay in Vegas a lot longer they wanted.
CBS 2's Mike Puccinelli reports that their trip out West went South when a man claimed he was picked on because of his size.
The man flew from Midway Airport to Las Vegas without incident. But when he tried to fly home to Midway several days later, he says he was prevented from doing so because of his girth.
(snip)
For that reason, this 6-foot, 350-pound man says he was barred from flying home with his wife. Orto says he was 20 feet from getting on the plane when he was stopped.
"She hustled after me and grabbed me and she said 'Can you sit in an airplane seat with the arms down?' I told her yes, I could sit in the seat with the arms down, I've flown many times and never had a problem. And she said, 'Well, you're not flying today.'"
(snip)
Emery Orto says what's most bothersome to him is that Southwest never tested whether he could actually fit in a seat with the arms down.
"That is absolutely my problem. They didn't test me in any way," he said.
(snip)
Southwest says its policy has been in place for years and that Orto was arguing with an elevated voice in a belligerent tone. The airline also says that at least four passengers said they weren't comfortable flying after watching Orto lose his temper.
Southwest says in the end it was the anger issue that ultimately eclipsed the weight issue that led to Orto being barred from the plane.
So why was he allowed to fly to Vegas in the first place? Southwest says the Chicago crew simply made a mistake.
Last edited by nsx; Sep 8, 2009 at 2:57 pm Reason: article quote excerpted to comply with FT's Terms of Service
Sep 8, 2009, 9:52 am
#2
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"Southwest says in the end it was the anger issue that ultimately eclipsed the weight issue that led to Orto being barred from the plane. "
I am 6'4", 255 pounds and I can well believe that a 6', 350-pound man would have trouble fitting in an airline seat with the arms down.
It would be useful to have video so we could see how belligerent he was.
I am 6'4", 255 pounds and I can well believe that a 6', 350-pound man would have trouble fitting in an airline seat with the arms down.
It would be useful to have video so we could see how belligerent he was.
Sep 8, 2009, 12:43 pm
#3
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And as a 6' 340 lb. man who has flown Southwest several times in the past, I can state with certainty that I for one can in fact fit in the the seat with the arms down. I'm not saying that it is comfortable, but I have done it repeatedly. I guess I will have to be extra-special non-belligerent when flying Southwest in the future. Oddly enough my wife who is almost 100 lbs lighter has more problems with the armrests than I do.
Sep 8, 2009, 1:18 pm
#4
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rtpflyer
I guess I will have to be extra-special non-belligerent when flying Southwest in the future.
I guess I will have to be extra-special non-belligerent when flying Southwest in the future.
aauaflier
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/Emery.O...2.1169253.html
PARK FOREST, Ill. (CBS) ―
The airline also says that at least four passengers said they weren't comfortable flying after watching Orto lose his temper.
Southwest says in the end it was the anger issue that ultimately eclipsed the weight issue that led to Orto being barred from the plane.
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/Emery.O...2.1169253.html
PARK FOREST, Ill. (CBS) ―
The airline also says that at least four passengers said they weren't comfortable flying after watching Orto lose his temper.
Southwest says in the end it was the anger issue that ultimately eclipsed the weight issue that led to Orto being barred from the plane.
"have to be extra-special non-belligerent when flying Southwest in the future."
Just non-belligerent enough not to frighten the other pax.
Sep 8, 2009, 1:57 pm
#5
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I am guessing most gate agents don't try to enforce a rule that no other airline enforces. Looks like the agent in Vegas didn't have anything better to do. I saw the report on the news last night, they came back on UA, which has similar policies but again no one enforces so he had no issues.
I am glad I stopped dealing with Southworst years ago!
I am glad I stopped dealing with Southworst years ago!
Sep 8, 2009, 3:23 pm
#7
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I know the sympathies normally lie with the Passengers in cases like this, and that's understandable. However, according to our Employees this went well beyond an angry Customer. One the Customer was approached, the reports say that he immediately began screaming anytime our folks attempted talking with him. When our Employee asked him to calm down, he began screaming even louder and pointing his finger in the Employee's face. He was advised that if he didn't stop screaming, he would be denied boarding, but he continued this behavior. We would have allowed the Customer to board the aircraft to assess his ability to fit comfortably and safely in one seat if we were able to get him to calm down enough to have the conversation.
Sep 8, 2009, 4:07 pm
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I am guessing most gate agents don't try to enforce a rule that no other airline enforces. Looks like the agent in Vegas didn't have anything better to do. I saw the report on the news last night, they came back on UA, which has similar policies but again no one enforces so he had no issues.
I am glad I stopped dealing with Southworst years ago!
I am glad I stopped dealing with Southworst years ago!
Sep 8, 2009, 5:50 pm
#9
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Airport Agents
How come neither the check-in counter nor the gate podium said anything, and let him on to the JetWay, where naturally a confrontational scene would ensue?
Nobody has come forth to say whether the flight was at 100% capacity, and, given the fact that they let him get there without questioning places them firmly in the line of fire for a lawsuit.
Nobody has come forth to say whether the flight was at 100% capacity, and, given the fact that they let him get there without questioning places them firmly in the line of fire for a lawsuit.
Sep 8, 2009, 6:39 pm
#10
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How come neither the check-in counter nor the gate podium said anything, and let him on to the JetWay, where naturally a confrontational scene would ensue?
Nobody has come forth to say whether the flight was at 100% capacity, and, given the fact that they let him get there without questioning places them firmly in the line of fire for a lawsuit.
Nobody has come forth to say whether the flight was at 100% capacity, and, given the fact that they let him get there without questioning places them firmly in the line of fire for a lawsuit.
We don't know if the customer had any checked luggage, used a skycap, had a friend check in luggage etc. The first WN employee would have to have any contact with a passenger is the GA who scans the BP. That GA takes a BP and scans it. I'm not sure if he's responsible to "size a passenger".
The flight doesn't have to be at 100% of capacity, the rule is you buy the ticket and get a refund.
Las Vegas is known for buffets. I could be clever and wonder how many buffets he patronized. The fact that one clerk lets a 52 lb bag slide through doesn't give the passenger the right to complain if he has to pay the overweight charges going home. The fact that the FA let it slide going doesn't change anything.
According to WN this is an issue with anger.
Sep 8, 2009, 7:21 pm
#11
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How come neither the check-in counter nor the gate podium said anything, and let him on to the JetWay, where naturally a confrontational scene would ensue?
Nobody has come forth to say whether the flight was at 100% capacity, and, given the fact that they let him get there without questioning places them firmly in the line of fire for a lawsuit.
Nobody has come forth to say whether the flight was at 100% capacity, and, given the fact that they let him get there without questioning places them firmly in the line of fire for a lawsuit.
Sep 9, 2009, 12:55 am
#12
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I just saw this story on the las nbc affiliate.
There was no mention of his yelling. They only had comments from the guy & his wife. But it was clear from even this short piece that they were leaving out a lot of important details.
swa needs to get their side of the story out there, but I know they have more urgent issues to deal with this week. If the info posted here turns out to be true, then I hope they sue this guy for all of the negative publicity.
I'm a fat guy myself. People carry their weight in different places. I thought it was obvious from looking at the video that he would not have been able to put the armrest down.
I think it's great that they have a policy for "passengers of size". Unfortunately, there's really no good way to universally enforce someting like this. All of the possible options to verify pre-flight if a passenger will fit are going to be embarassing. I fear that this will lead to people over a certain weight being required to buy 2 tickets. And that will really anger a lot of people.
I am a little smaller than this guy (one buffet away from needing a seat belt extender, and I'm hitting 2 buffets tomorrow...stay away from the wynn
. Whenever I have to travel, I do so in FC on AS because I don't want to inconvenience other passengers. I believe their POS policy (geez, even the acronym is degrading) is more restrictive than swa's.
I feel bad for the agents involved here. They were just trying to do the right thing.
I just saw this story on the las nbc affiliate.
There was no mention of his yelling. They only had comments from the guy & his wife. But it was clear from even this short piece that they were leaving out a lot of important details.
swa needs to get their side of the story out there, but I know they have more urgent issues to deal with this week. If the info posted here turns out to be true, then I hope they sue this guy for all of the negative publicity.
I'm a fat guy myself. People carry their weight in different places. I thought it was obvious from looking at the video that he would not have been able to put the armrest down.
I think it's great that they have a policy for "passengers of size". Unfortunately, there's really no good way to universally enforce someting like this. All of the possible options to verify pre-flight if a passenger will fit are going to be embarassing. I fear that this will lead to people over a certain weight being required to buy 2 tickets. And that will really anger a lot of people.
I am a little smaller than this guy (one buffet away from needing a seat belt extender, and I'm hitting 2 buffets tomorrow...stay away from the wynn
. Whenever I have to travel, I do so in FC on AS because I don't want to inconvenience other passengers. I believe their POS policy (geez, even the acronym is degrading) is more restrictive than swa's.I feel bad for the agents involved here. They were just trying to do the right thing.
Sep 9, 2009, 4:44 am
#13
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There needs to be a "seat template" right in front of every door to the airport with a large sign that says "Do You Need an Extra Seat?" Customers could then see if they could seat themselves without raising the armrests, and also so that no other part of their bodies encroached onto another seat.
That way no one could say "I didn't know!" And no one would be embarrassed by a last minute confrontation.
That way no one could say "I didn't know!" And no one would be embarrassed by a last minute confrontation.
Sep 9, 2009, 5:51 am
#14
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I know the sympathies normally lie with the Passengers in cases like this, and that's understandable. However, according to our Employees this went well beyond an angry Customer. One the Customer was approached, the reports say that he immediately began screaming anytime our folks attempted talking with him. When our Employee asked him to calm down, he began screaming even louder and pointing his finger in the Employee's face. He was advised that if he didn't stop screaming, he would be denied boarding, but he continued this behavior. We would have allowed the Customer to board the aircraft to assess his ability to fit comfortably and safely in one seat if we were able to get him to calm down enough to have the conversation.
How does this account jive with the report in the news article which states that SWA says the agents in Chicago that let him fly to Las Vegas in the first place made "a mistake"? That would certainly seem to indicate that it was weight-related, not attitude-related.
Are you saying the news article is lying in this bit? I did notice that the article didn't cite any SWA statement on the matter, so I am curious where they got the "a mistake" quote from.
Sep 9, 2009, 6:36 am
#15
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Brian,
How does this account jive with the report in the news article which states that SWA says the agents in Chicago that let him fly to Las Vegas in the first place made "a mistake"? That would certainly seem to indicate that it was weight-related, not attitude-related.
Are you saying the news article is lying in this bit? I did notice that the article didn't cite any SWA statement on the matter, so I am curious where they got the "a mistake" quote from.
How does this account jive with the report in the news article which states that SWA says the agents in Chicago that let him fly to Las Vegas in the first place made "a mistake"? That would certainly seem to indicate that it was weight-related, not attitude-related.
Are you saying the news article is lying in this bit? I did notice that the article didn't cite any SWA statement on the matter, so I am curious where they got the "a mistake" quote from.