ShortyDog

Considering that the Wright Amendment will forever loom over Love Field, do you think Southwest will offer a few flights out of DFW when the international terminal opens and existing airlines move.

I find it frustrating as *%*$&# that to get from Dallas to Phoenix on WN, I have to book two separate tickets and, even with the boarding pass changes, I still have to check in at the gate in ABQ and get another boarding pass!

If WN flys out of DFW, they don't have the Wright Amendment to contend with. Then, I can fly them more and rack up more Rapid Reward points. Everybody wins

JS

Probably not. But they would if I were in charge of Southwest. WN could beat AA to a bloody pulp at DFW. WN is no Vanguard or Legend.

------------------
"Where's my money?" -- Pizza the Hutt

bnaboy

No!

Duhey2

DFW is the reason for the Wright Amendment...and the way AA guards its hub there I doubt WN could get in if it wanted to.

If I were running WN, I wouldn't move.

JS

DFW is not the reason for the Wright Amendment. Southwest Airlines is the reason for the Wright Amendment.

When DFW was planned, Southwest didn't exist. The plan was to close Love Field forever.

But why does any of this matter? Southwest has every right to enter DFW if they want. Obviously AA will react (or "retaliate" if you prefer), but so far Southwest has *chosen* to stay out. No one forces Southwest to put 100% of their Dallas operations at Love Field.

bry99

To me, a better question is when the Wright Amendment will get amended again or even eliminated.

Flights from Love to Kansas City, St. Louis, and Wichita would be nice. And it is hard to explain why flights to Mississippi and Alabama are permitted from Love but not flights to Missouri and Kansas.

Moreover, Houston had a situation similar to that of Dallas -- with a new airport built around 1970 but the old airport remaining in operation due primarily to Southwest.
Because the nationwide operations from Houston Hobby have not crippled Houston Intercontinental, I doubt that DFW would be hurt from expanded service at Love.

JS

Kansas is included in the Shelby Amendment. No one has chosen to fly DAL-ICT, but it's legal. MCI is in Kansas City, Missouri.

Two things to note (IMHO) when comparing IAH vs HOU in Houston and DFW vs DAL in Dallas/Ft. Worth is that 1) the cities of Dallas and Ft. Worth have been in a state of semi-war for a long time; and 2) if GSW hadn't been a failure, the feds might not have insisted that DFW be given a monopoly.

swag

I would think that the long taxis and waits for takeoff slots that are common at DFW would be problematic for WN's quick-turnaround business model.

The "solution" for the Wright ammendment, IMO, would be to keep the restrictions on nonstops, cap the daily number of flights, but remove the restriction on thru-ticketing.

milesrus

It should be a violation of interstate commerece. DFW has been around 30 years, that is long enough to be protected. Southwest will not fly out of DFW because no airline can profitably fly into two airports in the same city. They do fly out of IAH but only to LOVE field. Hopefully when the new Love field terminals open next year, loads of RJ flights will fly out of Love, like JetBlue. If Delta flies RJ's from DFW to California the door is wide open for these smaller planes provided they hold no more than 57 seats. I guess they could use 70 seat planes and limit it to 57 passengers. This would be great, they overbook a flight and kick people off to make the 57 passenger rule, these people complain to the DOT and they throw out the Wright Amendentment.

JS

The Wright Amendment is not a violation of interstate commerce. The Constitution says Congress can regulate interstate commerce, and that is exactly what the Wright Amendment does!

Had Congress said flights from Love Field may be operated to Houston but not San Antonio, that would be unconstitutional.

You have to have 56 or fewer physical SEATS on the plane, not ticketholders. Secondly, the DOT does not write federal law.

Also, JetBlue's EMB-190 planes will hold 100 seats, so no DAL service for them.

------------------
"Where's my money?" -- Pizza the Hutt

L Dude 7

Plenty of airlines serve both ORD and MDW
AA even serves a non-hub (LGA) from MDW.
United has a hub at IAD, yet more frequent service to DCA. There are also duplicates at EWR/JFK/LGA/HPN and SFO/SJC/OAK. (Southwest even served the last three together a few years back)

milesrus

I guess I meant working two cities with an abundance of flights. If Southwest flew from DFW to Phoenix etc then they could not connect with all th Little Rock, Austin, ouston etc. I would assume Southwest is happy to have Love to themselves, and tat until they have picked the rest of the country over they can deal with limited service out of here. I am surprised they don't fly to Birmingham. Good responce from JS I appreciate the clarification. I do think the DOT could press this if they choose to. Richard Shelby of Alabama added three states, so why doesn't McCain add four states like Arizona, Illinois,California,and Florida. Regardless it is a dump law, no other airport has this rule. Even National has relaxed their 1200 mile perimeter rule.

JS

Southwest already connects PHX with LIT, AUS, etc. PHX to Dallas is what Southwest can't fly now.

I think you misunderstand the purpose of the DOT. The DOT is not a consumer advocacy group. The DOT's job is to enforce federal law.


I have thought long and hard about the Wright Amendment (I used to live in D/FW and frequently visit). I agree its original purpose is clearly no longer needed. However, I feel it is more important for government to hold up their end of the bargain. The federal government forced all the airlines in operation at that time out of Love Field.

If anything is to be changed, IMHO the only fair thing to do is close Love Field completely, and then Southwest would have no choice but to move to DFW.

AA is not my favorite airline, believe me, but even I can feel sorry for them if we were to remove all restrictions on Love Field.

Southwest has every right to enter DFW. Just because they choose not to is not a good reason to relax the Wright Amendment.

------------------
"Where's my money?" -- Pizza the Hutt


[This message has been edited by JS (edited 08-07-2003).]

milesrus

JS, Love Field is going through a huge expansion, the old Braniff gates have all been torn down. A new parking garage just opened, so I would assume new gates means something is going to change. The phoenix to Little Rock, I was saying is that if they flw Phoenix to DFW you can't bus them over to Love to connect and you can't run several banks of flights to Little Rock from both airports. There just are not enough people needing to go their from both Love and DFW. American flies 9 flights, Delta 3 and Southwest 8. So what that the airlines signed up to move that was 30 years ago. The Ex Director of DFW keeps saying opening up Love Field will hurt DFW's bond rating. That is a flat out lie, unless he's telling me that all cities with 2-3 airports have high rate bonds because of the competition.

Mr. July

That's probably the practical solution versus fighting the battle necessary to scrap the Wright Amendment entirely - just expand the exceptions until the underlying rule becomes practically meaningless. You could maybe even go one or two adjacent-to-the-existing states at a time - maybe AZ, MO - and work it up from there.