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Overweight Passenger Sues Southwest Over Seating Policy

Overweight Passenger Sues Southwest Over Seating Policy

Old Aug 31, 2004, 6:28 am
  #31  
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SW's policy seems fair but I don't see any reason why 2 POS couldn't just buy one extra seat. POS get to preboard and under the present policy they will get 2 seats together, getting 3 seats together isn't that much different.
Good point. Here's another (ir)relevant question. I've been on other airlines' flights, where due to weight restrictions they had to push some people off and take off with empty seats.

How close are the margins on SW aircraft? Would a troupe of COS heading to the Weight Watchers convention blow the plane weight, since only cargo is actually weighed (and passengers just estimated) when calculating takeoff weight?
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Old Aug 31, 2004, 8:02 am
  #32  
 
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The Real Issue

The Real Issue is that we live in a society of overabundance and overindulgence. Aside from that, we also have a portion of the population that has mental, not physical and/or genetic, issues that aid in creating obesity as commonplace.

We've all seen at least on Jerry Springer show about a 200 lbs 6th grader, and let me tell you, it's not genetics. Genetics does cause one to be fat.

I have an obese sister who weighs almost twice as much as me. It ain't genetics.

Living in our society of entitlements, we all feel we have a right to this or that and do not look at the repercussions to self or universe or anything in between.

Obesity is not a disability; there are several cures and preventions available. Instead of attempting to accommodate obesity and all of its effects, we should be attempting to cure the problems that surround it on an individual level and on a macro-level.

Obesity not only affects the individual afflicted, but it affects everyone, from the PAX that has to endure having less room to all of us for higher premiums on health insurance, over-taxation of health care resources, higher hopsitalization and care rates due to obese people's "lifestyles," to, yes, higher airplane tickets due to these f-ing lawsuits.

This string may be humorous to some, but it should be a wake up call to all. If we are self-interested, we would be helping these people lose weight and start a healthy lifestyle for the good of themselves and all.

By the way, what is obese? Obese is anything over 30% bodyfat; that's almost one third of your weight in fat! Healthy people have: 18% or less body fat for men and 22% or less body fat for women.

Most of us 'Mericuns are fat/overweight and too many of us are obese. So before making anymore cracks, take a look at your gut and ask, what can I do to make myself more healthy and set an example for obese people.
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Old Aug 31, 2004, 10:55 am
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by Tino
Would a troupe of COS heading to the Weight Watchers convention blow the plane weight?
Tino, you really should be on that TV show "Last Comic Standing"!! You're absolutely killing me here!!!


Originally Posted by skaman
This string may be humorous to some
It's Tino's fault, I can't stop laughing at his one-liners.

Originally Posted by skaman
Most of us 'Mericuns are fat/overweight and too many of us are obese. So before making anymore cracks, take a look at your gut and ask, what can I do to make myself more healthy and set an example for obese people.
Looking down at my gut, I think I passed the fat test. Bring on more peanuts!!!!
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Old Aug 31, 2004, 2:10 pm
  #34  
 
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I may have said it before in this thread's earlier days, but this week's Airline reminded me of it: The problem with Southwest's policy of making people buy two tickets if they're too large is simply that it is not consistently applied. People who are asked to buy a second ticket one time aren't asked to do so another. Whether you're asked seems to depend on who you draw as your ticket agent. That's ridiculous. Unless they find a way to come up with some objective test that serves as the policy's basis, they're going to run the risk of losing lawsuits and upsetting customers. They need to pick something -- if you need a seatbelt extender, for example -- and stick with it in all cases. This hit-and-miss enforcement is simply unacceptable. Heck, just have a WN seat with a seatbelt there in the check-in area or gate area -- just like they do for carry-on baggage! I don't care, so long as the enforcement is consistent.
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Old Aug 31, 2004, 5:31 pm
  #35  
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Originally Posted by gutt22
I may have said it before in this thread's earlier days, but this week's Airline reminded me of it: The problem with Southwest's policy of making people buy two tickets if they're too large is simply that it is not consistently applied. People who are asked to buy a second ticket one time aren't asked to do so another. Whether you're asked seems to depend on who you draw as your ticket agent. That's ridiculous.
I saw that episode, too, and had no sympathy for the overweight woman. First, she _said_ she flies every six weeks or so. That doesn't mean that she does and, frankly, I'm skeptical that this is the case. Who shows up at an airport with only a ticket and no cash or credit card -- not even an ATM? Who thinks that a ticket charged to someone else's card will be refunded in cash? This woman was an adult (at least by age) and certainly should have known better. What I found particularly unacceptable was her sense of entitlement. The SWA rep consistently said, "it's for your own safety and comfort, AND THE COMFORT AND SAFETY OF THE OTHER PASSENGERS." This woman was very, very large. There's no doubt that she would have been in her seat and half of the seat of whoever was unlucky enough to sit next to her. At no time did she ever give the slightest thought to anyone other than herself. The "I'm a single mother with two kids" entitlement whine was the icing on the cake.

I have nothing against overweight people, and don't think any less of them because of their size. Though I don't like to see people killing themselves, it's their business what size they wish to be and I have no problem with. No problem, that is, until a complete stranger decides to takeover half of the seat that I've paid for.

Unless they find a way to come up with some objective test that serves as the policy's basis, they're going to run the risk of losing lawsuits and upsetting customers.
They won't lose any lawsuit. The woman on Airline may work for a lawyer, but I am one. Unless and until obesity is classified as a disability, it is perfectly permissible for airlines to require passengers-of-size to buy two seats, or even to exclude them entirely. It may upset passengers, but it doesn't violate any laws. And, as for pax getting upset, Airline has shown a few incidents in which pax had to buy two seats. With the one exception of this nasty woman, no one got particularly upset, everyone was treated with courtesy and dignity, and no one threw a temper tantrum.

They need to pick something -- if you need a seatbelt extender, for example -- and stick with it in all cases. This hit-and-miss enforcement is simply unacceptable. Heck, just have a WN seat with a seatbelt there in the check-in area or gate area -- just like they do for carry-on baggage! I don't care, so long as the enforcement is consistent.
I don't know how they can do this, since everyone is different. Remember the woman last night who was given the voucher because she was crushed next to a large passenger? The rep asked if the large pax had the armrest down. The woman said, "Yes, but she flowed under onto half of my seat." Everyone's physique is different. I know some very large people who can be accomodated in a single airline seat without imposing on other pax' space, even though they need the seatbelt extender. I've also seen much smaller people who don't need the extender who flow onto the seat (and the person) seated next to them.

I'm far less concerned with consistency or an objective rule than I am with ensuring that I'm the only person seated in my seat (though my wife can sit on my lap if she wants ).
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Old Aug 31, 2004, 6:22 pm
  #36  
 
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The SW employee told the women SW's policy requiring that COS purchase a second seat was disclosed in her itinerary. The policy doesn't appear in my itinerary. The itinerary does refer to the contract of carriage. Curiously the contract of carriage also doesn't say anything about COS having to purchase a second seat.

I have no problem with the policy but I find it curious it's not referenced in the contract of carriage.
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Old Aug 31, 2004, 6:49 pm
  #37  
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First of all..... I agree with alot of what PTravel said about last night show.... the woman was truly obnoxious and self serving....BUT.... I found it interesting that the parallel story of the "sick" man ( they were very tolerant of him and his rather agressive/passive behavior) that when he sat down in the airplane he appeared as fat as the other woman and easily spread out to the other seat........why didn't they charge him for an extra seat?
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Old Aug 31, 2004, 7:11 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by david4455
First of all..... I agree with alot of what PTravel said about last night show.... the woman was truly obnoxious and self serving....BUT.... I found it interesting that the parallel story of the "sick" man ( they were very tolerant of him and his rather agressive/passive behavior) that when he sat down in the airplane he appeared as fat as the other woman and easily spread out to the other seat........why didn't they charge him for an extra seat?
I don't remember all of this episode, but I seem to remember the dude's flight not being full. COS's only get charged if they take up extra space on a full flight. If the plane leaves with one empty seat, they get their money back.
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Old Aug 31, 2004, 7:17 pm
  #39  
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Yes, I noticed that too. So if you fat and sick, you'll be okay. Also this "measure the waist" type thing wouldn't work. It's usually enormous asses, or huge bellies that are the problem, and those don't get measured by the waist. Yet another reason why I won't fly SWA.
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Old Aug 31, 2004, 9:26 pm
  #40  
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Let me reword this. Does the above poster refuse to fly Southwest because they allow COSs on the plane, or because they do not?

I would think that COS fly all airlines, and Southwest makes it more convenient for non-COS to co-exist with COS.

If in fact other airlines do not have COS (Lake Wobegon Airlines?), it is because the passengers do not have enough money left over from their ticket price to eat.

Last edited by Tino; Aug 31, 2004 at 10:59 pm
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Old Aug 31, 2004, 9:32 pm
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Tino
Yeah, it's probably best that you fly other airlines if you want to avoid obese passengers. People that regularly fly other airlines usually don't have enough cash left over to buy dinner anyway...
?
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Old Aug 31, 2004, 10:03 pm
  #42  
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If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

Tino, Tino, Tino. What part of this reasoning don't you understand?

1. The camera crew of Airline only films SWA
2. If it's not on Airline, it didn't happen
3. Therefore, nothing bad ever happens on the other carriers.

I hope every viewer of Airline with inflated expectations of travel and feelings of self-importance chooses another carrier.

SWA attracts passengers with a good attitude, just like its employees. The converse is equally true.
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Old Sep 1, 2004, 12:35 am
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by Jaimito Cartero
.......Also this "measure the waist" type thing wouldn't work. It's usually enormous asses, or huge bellies that are the problem, and those don't get measured by the waist.
Yeah, that makes sense. I guess the measure the waist thing wouldn't really work. However, like another poster said, possibly if a "seatbelt extender" is required, then maybe that would be the requirement that a COS needs to purchase another seat. I would think that with the armrests down, the fat would squish to the front. If the seatbelt extender is needed, maybe that could mean the person is too big and needs another seat? I'm not sure how big those seat belt extenders are though. Maybe that's too small of a guideline, maybe its too big.


Originally Posted by Jaimito Cartero
Yet another reason why I won't fly SWA.
I also agree with Tino on this. What does this rule have anything to do with flying SWA or not? Or are you a COS? If not, it doesn't seem like this should have anything to do with why you wouldn't fly SWA. All airlines have COS. All airlines basically also have the same seat widths in coach class. If the COS are in coach class on the other airlines, its the same thing. Its actually better on SWA because on the other airline, you will get stuck next to a COS and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do. If the flight if full on some other airline and you have already been assigned a seat, you cannot asked to be reassigned to a different seat. At least on SWA, you will not have to be squished by a COS because they will have to buy another seat. Now if you ARE a COS, then thats a different story. I guess I can understand your reasons for not wanting to fly SWA then. I do go back and forth on whether or not this policy is fair to COS's. But one thing is for sure. A COS can put together some sweet Mileage Runs if they want, especially if they get targeted for triple credit.
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Old Sep 1, 2004, 1:00 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by nsx
SWA attracts passengers with a good attitude, just like its employees. The converse is equally true.
I've got to wonder if that's really true, though. Though, of course, the show is edited so that only the more interesting incidents are shown, SWA really seems to have it's share of Greyhound flyers. I've NEVER seen a sloppy, falling-down drunk in an airport, anywhere, but each episode of Airline seems to feature one. The POO (Passenger of Odor) appeared to be a homeless person who had scraped together enough money for a ticket -- I've never flown with a homeless person before, nor even seen one in an airport. I've never seen low-class, entitlement-demanding, first-time passengers cursing out gate agents (even the ones who deserved it ), but there seem to be at least two in every episode.

And I'm sorry, the last thing I'd ever want on a flight is FAs who use the intercom for impromptu entertainment, birthday announcements, guess-the-combined-age-of-the-FAs games, etc., though it seems like a of the pax shown on Airline do.

I know a lot of different kinds of people fly SWA, and for lots of different reasons, but on the whole, and judging, probably unfairly, from the three legs I've flown with them (on one I told the FA to have the police meet the plane because my wife was assaulted by another passenger -- so much for pax with good attitudes), the other carriers seem to attract a somewhat "loftier" clientele (which isn't saying much).
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Old Sep 1, 2004, 1:22 am
  #45  
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I won't fly SWA for a few reasons. Yes, I'm a big guy. Most of "me" goes forward, I fit in a seat, but I think they don't enforce the rule evenhandedly. I obviously choose to fly an airline that *does* have bigger seats, and where first class seats are the norm for a frequent flyer, and not the cattle car approach.

I was horrified when Airline came on. I had booked my mother on WN to Las Vegas a couple of months before, and would have felt so bad if she had encountered problems. She fits in a normal seat too, but is big.

I don't hate SW though. I've flown SW probably 40 times in my life, and enjoyed the low fares. They are great for lowering fares in the markets they enter. That works to my advantage.

I'm sure it's hard to run an airline. They won't let them bring pets, but then let them bring turtles. I don't begrudge the turtle people, or the big sick guy who got on.

I would, however, hope that SW employees would go to the extra effort that they did for the tall 15 year old to accomodate a COS.
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