Massive SNA (Orange County) Capacity Loss until 12/31
Sep 13, 23, 6:12 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Hilton Diamond
Posts: 83
Massive SNA (Orange County) Capacity Loss until 12/31
FYI from a friend...
"In an effort to balance the needs of the Orange County community for adequate commercial air transportation facilities and the desire of the local community for environmentally responsible air transportation operations, SNA is requiring all airlines to reduce capacity on flights traveling to/from the airport through the end of the year. As a result, Revenue Management has lowered the lids on our SNA flights operating between September 9 and December 21, 2023. This will not impact existing reservations. Employees should not overbook any SNA flights through December 31, 2023."
These are loads from LAS/SNA on 9/15, you can see some flights are down ton 79,93,107 etc.... no reason why some flights are lower than others.
"In an effort to balance the needs of the Orange County community for adequate commercial air transportation facilities and the desire of the local community for environmentally responsible air transportation operations, SNA is requiring all airlines to reduce capacity on flights traveling to/from the airport through the end of the year. As a result, Revenue Management has lowered the lids on our SNA flights operating between September 9 and December 21, 2023. This will not impact existing reservations. Employees should not overbook any SNA flights through December 31, 2023."
These are loads from LAS/SNA on 9/15, you can see some flights are down ton 79,93,107 etc.... no reason why some flights are lower than others.
Sep 13, 23, 9:37 pm
#3
Join Date: Dec 2006
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So, help me understand- the number of flights is(?) unchanged, but with fewer people on them and that's somehow "environmentally responsible"? Wouldn't the c-rb-n "average per pax" be higher now?
Sep 14, 23, 3:25 am
#4
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Sep 14, 23, 6:38 am
#5
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I am very confused.
They talk about reduction, but no flights are cancelled.
Anyone know what the column headings are in the first post?
They talk about reduction, but no flights are cancelled.
Anyone know what the column headings are in the first post?
Sep 14, 23, 8:58 am
#6
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,428
The airport guesses how full flights will be, and applies that percentage to back into the current 11.8 million allowable passengers. And that determines how many flights they’ll permit.
Short-haul 737 noise limits differ from long-haul ones. (Or so they try to explain.)
For short-haul destinations (e.g. S.F. Bay Area and Las Vegas) an aircraft can operate within the Class E noise limits; however, for long-haul destinations (e.g. Atlanta and Newark) the same aircraft might need to operate as a Class A. NOTE: The number of Class A average daily departures is limited by the Settlement Agreement to eighty-nine (89).
Sep 14, 23, 11:43 am
#7
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or require airlines to do so, planning out thru year end at prior quarter's passenger load %. half empty planes aren't much quieter
Sep 14, 23, 12:41 pm
#8
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Bureaucrats at work here.
Environmental person says : "Gee, we need to reduce the overall traffic at our airport. If we reduce the number of passengers, we are all set."
Guy in back of room jumps up and says - "We need to reduce number of flights."
Accountant jumps up and says - "No, we can not do that. It would reduce the income we get from airlines for landing rights and it will mess up the budget"
Guy in back of room gets fired.
Environmental person says : "Gee, we need to reduce the overall traffic at our airport. If we reduce the number of passengers, we are all set."
Guy in back of room jumps up and says - "We need to reduce number of flights."
Accountant jumps up and says - "No, we can not do that. It would reduce the income we get from airlines for landing rights and it will mess up the budget"
Guy in back of room gets fired.
Sep 14, 23, 2:46 pm
#9
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: US
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If you wander over to the SNA Airport board minutes, somewhere starting here, https://www.ocair.com/about/administ...rt-commission/ The report the exact passenger numbers planned, or rather, approved.
The DRAFT 2024 Plan is here: https://files.ocair.com/media/2023-0...MEaPe7.Zk1FIfK Under the July 5, 2023 minutes. If the direct PDF link fails, here's the parent link: https://www.ocair.com/about/administ...n/july-5-2023/
Southwest is down for 4.4M of the 14M seat capacity American is #2 at 2.4M, United #3 at 2M, Alaska #4 at 2M just behind United and Delta at 1.3M The actual limit is 11.8M, but they allow for empty seats.
Somewhere else I ran across a comment that 2020 and/or 2021 when travel was restricted they were around 8M actual, and the cutback to WN may be related to that pent-up travel demand everyone has mentioned.
They aren't guessing.
In another set of minutes, which I didn't save the link for, they had a June YTD set of numbers reported from the airlines. I can't find it right now
Environmental? Less seats = less fuel? Less passengers = less times the toilet is flushed at the airport? Less individual cars picking up passengers? Somewhere back in time will be the document that created the 11.8 limit, and it may explain what they were thinking.
The DRAFT 2024 Plan is here: https://files.ocair.com/media/2023-0...MEaPe7.Zk1FIfK Under the July 5, 2023 minutes. If the direct PDF link fails, here's the parent link: https://www.ocair.com/about/administ...n/july-5-2023/
Southwest is down for 4.4M of the 14M seat capacity American is #2 at 2.4M, United #3 at 2M, Alaska #4 at 2M just behind United and Delta at 1.3M The actual limit is 11.8M, but they allow for empty seats.
Somewhere else I ran across a comment that 2020 and/or 2021 when travel was restricted they were around 8M actual, and the cutback to WN may be related to that pent-up travel demand everyone has mentioned.
In another set of minutes, which I didn't save the link for, they had a June YTD set of numbers reported from the airlines. I can't find it right now
Environmental? Less seats = less fuel? Less passengers = less times the toilet is flushed at the airport? Less individual cars picking up passengers? Somewhere back in time will be the document that created the 11.8 limit, and it may explain what they were thinking.
Sep 14, 23, 4:22 pm
#10
Join Date: Oct 2001
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I spent a week in the congested, trafficked surrounding area and jogged around SNA daily. The quest for noise abatement must be about the luxury homes and apartments on the water of Newport Beach. I hope the banana stand isn't impacted...
Sep 15, 23, 10:21 am
#12
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SNA
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But what really makes no sense is quite a few people moved there long after SNA went big-time and still complain about the airport 🙄
Sep 15, 23, 11:25 pm
#13
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: US
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The novel "Airport" had a chunk of it dedicated to neighborhood airport noise protesters. Took the protesters to task over it and blamed sleezy realtors who sold them the land, full knowing the 'jetport' was coming.
This was reduced to a scene and a few lines in the movie.
Sep 19, 23, 4:44 pm
#14
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