Southwest's Christmas 2022 meltdown - phones, chat shut down, RR points compensation
Dec 27, 2022, 3:27 pm
#226
Join Date: Mar 2011
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The crappy thing is, I don't think any of this is illegal in Colorado. Anyone have a reference to a law that would prevent this? It does seem crazy that an employer could just schedule you a 24 hour shift as long as they gave you some breaks here and there and paid you time and a half as necessary.
This is a telling memo I encourage everyone here to read to understand.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fk7ZPxNa...jpg&name=large
I do find it quite ironic we are just coming out of a pandemic, doctors offices do not want to see you in person if you are sick, they want you to do Telemedicine, and then a letter like this is written. It seems Chris Johnson does not really understand how if a few sick ground agents make the rest of the ground agents all sick then they are all going to be out sick. Then a few days later the entire airline coast to coast has an operational meltdown. I wonder how many other terminals received this same letter from Chris Johnson, Vice President of Ground Operations. I do not think issuing letters like this to employees is a very good way to have employee retention occur, and certainly does not help employee morale.
I also find it quite ironic that it is necessary to force people to work sick (unless they can get to a doctor in person on the days surrounding Christmas- get real here), and force mandatory overtime, to "get the agents back on track" according to Chris Johnson. Actually Chris Johnson these directives are only making matters worse, way worse. I hope Chris Johnson has enjoyed the past few days. I wonder if this letter from Chris Johnson to DEN is what sparked the whole meltdown here nationwide (beyond the damage caused by the weather).
Anyone know if Chris Johnson still works for Southwest?
Dec 27, 2022, 3:31 pm
#227
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Independent! But mostly BKK, BCN, SFO, PDX, SEA...
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Posts: 1,060
100k miles on Alaska. Or 2200$ for a first class ticket.
230k miles on United. Or 11 thousand $ for a first class ticket. On Friday.
The US airline industry is absolute trash. This is just Southwest's turn in the barrel.
Dec 27, 2022, 3:38 pm
#229
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,662
I do find it quite ironic we are just coming out of a pandemic, doctors offices do not want to see you in person if you are sick, they want you to do Telemedicine, and then a letter like this is written. It seems Chris Johnson does not really understand how if a few sick ground agents make the rest of the ground agents all sick then they are all going to be out sick. Then a few days later the entire airline coast to coast has an operational meltdown. I wonder how many other terminals received this same letter from Chris Johnson, Vice President of Ground Operations. I do not think issuing letters like this to employees is a very good way to have employee retention occur, and certainly does not help employee morale.
Dec 27, 2022, 3:45 pm
#232
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
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Posts: 2,495
If I was in this situation I would show up at work with a positive COVID test in hand, report to manager (video it, obviously) and go "Hey, I've got a positive COVID test but due to this policy and my inability to get the doctor I'm here to work. *coughs on boss* Thanks!"
Dec 27, 2022, 3:46 pm
#233
Join Date: Feb 2020
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The spread between WN's WGA and BS fares for a sector hasn't been more than 160$ IME.
You can get a super low fare on a standard legacy and then if something changes for you you'll be paying out a grip. Meanwhile if things change for me on Southwest I can usually swap without a problem, no change fees and the fare difference is usually never more than a few $ cuz I buy BS exclusively.
It took a pandemic to get other airlines to stop gankin people whenever life precipitated the need to move things around. Don't think that nonsense isn't coming back.
For the travel I've been doing lately, the point-to-point network has been fantastic. Frequencies, non-stops, cities served...yes, I will keep flying them. They are way different than Spirit or Frontier. I'm not stanning for Southwest...this crisis is a stinker no doubt, and WN needs to get slapped in the face for it, but tell me what other US airline hasn't had some kinda debacle like this? This is indicative of the industry in general.
You can get a super low fare on a standard legacy and then if something changes for you you'll be paying out a grip. Meanwhile if things change for me on Southwest I can usually swap without a problem, no change fees and the fare difference is usually never more than a few $ cuz I buy BS exclusively.
It took a pandemic to get other airlines to stop gankin people whenever life precipitated the need to move things around. Don't think that nonsense isn't coming back.
For the travel I've been doing lately, the point-to-point network has been fantastic. Frequencies, non-stops, cities served...yes, I will keep flying them. They are way different than Spirit or Frontier. I'm not stanning for Southwest...this crisis is a stinker no doubt, and WN needs to get slapped in the face for it, but tell me what other US airline hasn't had some kinda debacle like this? This is indicative of the industry in general.
Dec 27, 2022, 3:51 pm
#234
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At least not if that writer wants to have any readers.
Dec 27, 2022, 4:51 pm
#235
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 50
So who gets to decide if this chaos is the result of a "weather event" or an "operational event"?
SW will want it to be a weather event as it means they're on the hook for less compensation. I don't think they're offering any hotel vouchers at the moment anyway. Can they just say "weather event" and that's it, no one can dispute it and make them pay up as they'd be required to do for an operational event that was under their control to prevent?
And who decides how long a "weather event" is allowed to impact operations before it becomes an "operational event"? I'm sure this was initially a weather event from the storms but there should be a reasonable expectation that a weather event won't cause a majority of flights to be canceled for a full week. That's just an operational breakdown.
SW will want it to be a weather event as it means they're on the hook for less compensation. I don't think they're offering any hotel vouchers at the moment anyway. Can they just say "weather event" and that's it, no one can dispute it and make them pay up as they'd be required to do for an operational event that was under their control to prevent?
And who decides how long a "weather event" is allowed to impact operations before it becomes an "operational event"? I'm sure this was initially a weather event from the storms but there should be a reasonable expectation that a weather event won't cause a majority of flights to be canceled for a full week. That's just an operational breakdown.
Dec 27, 2022, 5:20 pm
#236
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You might be right. I’ll put in for the full extra costs and report back. Pretty risky for Southwest to do the minimum required here. They made life very difficult for something like a million passengers, right after Christmas. Congress will hold hearings. Their brand is at risk.
Dec 27, 2022, 5:24 pm
#237
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Atlanta Metro
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Dec 27, 2022, 5:34 pm
#238
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Listening to the head of Southwest's flight attendant union on NPR tonight, I couldn't believe my ears.
Among other bizarre things, she claimed that WN does not do anticipatory cancellations like other airlines because they're committed to trying to get the passengers to their destinations. I think most of us here on FT with experience with WN would say the opposite was true. They cancel way MORE than the others, and I believe they did that last week as well.
She further claimed that there were no personnel issues. This, despite that memo that's been circulating from DEN, and corporate's own claims to the contrary.
Virtually everything she said was completely wrong, at least based on my knowledge and experience. Surely the union president can't be that ignorant of operations? Is she just lying for some reason? I can't figure out why--the only thing she said that sounded correct was that this was management's fault. Honestly, my jaw kept dropping lower the longer she spoke.
And in further tales of "expert" incompetence, CNN interviewed a self-styled travel expert today who made absolutely no sense at all. Just about anyone here on Flyertalk could have offered more knowledgeable commentary.
Among other bizarre things, she claimed that WN does not do anticipatory cancellations like other airlines because they're committed to trying to get the passengers to their destinations. I think most of us here on FT with experience with WN would say the opposite was true. They cancel way MORE than the others, and I believe they did that last week as well.
She further claimed that there were no personnel issues. This, despite that memo that's been circulating from DEN, and corporate's own claims to the contrary.
Virtually everything she said was completely wrong, at least based on my knowledge and experience. Surely the union president can't be that ignorant of operations? Is she just lying for some reason? I can't figure out why--the only thing she said that sounded correct was that this was management's fault. Honestly, my jaw kept dropping lower the longer she spoke.
And in further tales of "expert" incompetence, CNN interviewed a self-styled travel expert today who made absolutely no sense at all. Just about anyone here on Flyertalk could have offered more knowledgeable commentary.
Dec 27, 2022, 6:01 pm
#239
Join Date: Oct 2005
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That is not true. Every bag is scanned going onto the plane and coming off the plane. Anyone in the baggage area with a computer can tell you the last place your bag was scanned.
Dec 27, 2022, 6:07 pm
#240
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Silver lining post: A couple of weeks ago (pre-meltdown), I was pricing a business trip for the week of Jan. 9. Prices were outrageous, and got the BS "only two seats left!" message. So I thought, I'll check again later.
Just checked again, and fares are WAY down, and it seems like there is lots of availability. Maybe because of the WN stench right now?
And proactively: Yes I am still looking at WN because I am confident this sihtshow will be over then, and they have the only nonstops to where I have to go. And if things are still tits up by then, I'll cancel or rebook on someone else.
Just checked again, and fares are WAY down, and it seems like there is lots of availability. Maybe because of the WN stench right now?
And proactively: Yes I am still looking at WN because I am confident this sihtshow will be over then, and they have the only nonstops to where I have to go. And if things are still tits up by then, I'll cancel or rebook on someone else.