Dog Passes On Southwest Flight
Jan 6, 2022, 11:42 am
#16
Join Date: Jun 2015
Programs: VX Gold/WN Companion
Posts: 682
I am on Southwest's side on this one but the pet owner is an idiot IMO for both bringing that dog and how they dealt with the situation and the FA could have also easily handled it better.
Here is the thing that most people do not understand...Flight Attendants can NOT give you permission to violate any of the rules...so don't ask...ever. They DO however have the discretion of how they deal with a passenger that DOES break any given rule.
Just like getting up to use the toilet with the seatbelt sign on...if you ask, they will 100% say no...if you just get up and go, they at most will say "return to seat" if anything.
Ask for forgiveness not permission and just take the dang dog out if it is literally dying.
If it kept my dog from dying...100% without question...but it was a vailed threat...no pilot is gonna turn a plane around cuz a dog is out of the carrier that is not posing a further hazard..
Here is the thing that most people do not understand...Flight Attendants can NOT give you permission to violate any of the rules...so don't ask...ever. They DO however have the discretion of how they deal with a passenger that DOES break any given rule.
Just like getting up to use the toilet with the seatbelt sign on...if you ask, they will 100% say no...if you just get up and go, they at most will say "return to seat" if anything.
Ask for forgiveness not permission and just take the dang dog out if it is literally dying.
If it kept my dog from dying...100% without question...but it was a vailed threat...no pilot is gonna turn a plane around cuz a dog is out of the carrier that is not posing a further hazard..
Last edited by PAX62; Jan 6, 2022 at 11:48 am
Jan 6, 2022, 11:52 am
#17
Join Date: Apr 2007
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I am sorry that you are so fearful of a small animal. If "dog bites seat mate" had happened, then we could be discussing the validity of removing (or at least uncovering) an animal in a carrier. However, that did not happen, and injecting "what if" scenarios are not particularly helpful in looking for better approaches. Are you familiar with the size of a French Bulldog? Do you have any concept of what would be involved for it to get much of your body into its mouth? Its very hard to imagine any injury, much less a significant injury, inflicted by that breed.
Jan 6, 2022, 12:37 pm
#18
Join Date: Feb 2017
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All of the comments about the breed of dog, breathing problems, the questionable logic of bringing a pet on the plane, all have their place and have some degree of validity. The fact remains, the dog WAS on the plane, regardless of bad decisions of the owner or bad decisions of the airline to allow all breeds on board. The question at hand at that point in time was: (1) would removing the dog from the carrier have possibly saved its life, and (2) would removing the dog in that controlled situation, in flight, have jeopardized any other passengers? We cannot answer point #1 other than to say that it possibly could have saved the dog's life. Point #2 -safety in flight - we are not talking about taking a Great Dane or a vicious German Shepherd police dog out of a cage, we are talking about a dog small enough to fit in a carrier underneath a seat. To argue that it was going to jeopardize anyone is really, really a stretch. Flights are more jeopardized when passengers repeatedly get up to go to the restroom while the seatbelt light is still illuminated. As for some people not liking dogs... so what? Some people don't like flying, but they still do it. When we fly a commercial airline, we all subject our personal preferences to accommodate everyone so we can all get from Point A to Point B in a timely manner. I don't like sitting next to grossly obese passengers who take up half of my space and who apparently have not had a bath or brushed their teeth in a week, but when I have been in that situation, I endure it and behave like an adult. We should insist on the same courtesy from the seat mates of the person with the dog in distress.
No question, this was NOT one of Southwest's shining moments. Shame on the flight attendants who could not manage a better response than to threaten to turn the plane around with "consequences" to the passenger. I have been a SWA passenger forever, and most of the time I view this company as "my" airline and am proud of what I see with employees. I admire the corporate culture that seems (at least to those of us on the outside) to survive despite many challenges. However, we are seeing and hearing more and more of these unfortunate incidents where a SWA employee perhaps follows the rule to the letter but does NOT in any way reflect the Southwest Spirit. If the company is no longer interested in passenger goodwill like they once were in the good old days, perhaps they should at least calculate the public relations disaster that events such as this bring to the company. Many people have small animal pets, dogs, cats, etc. that are truly part of their family, perhaps their only family, and while most of us will never consider having them fly with us, we do very much identify as a pet owner with losing a pet under those circumstances. It is very, very difficult to justify the behavior of the SWA flight attendant in this situation. Southwest, step up and do a little more behind the scenes training to make sure that arbitrary in flight decisions by attendants, decisions that do NOT impact the safety of the flight, are made in a more compassionate manner.
No question, this was NOT one of Southwest's shining moments. Shame on the flight attendants who could not manage a better response than to threaten to turn the plane around with "consequences" to the passenger. I have been a SWA passenger forever, and most of the time I view this company as "my" airline and am proud of what I see with employees. I admire the corporate culture that seems (at least to those of us on the outside) to survive despite many challenges. However, we are seeing and hearing more and more of these unfortunate incidents where a SWA employee perhaps follows the rule to the letter but does NOT in any way reflect the Southwest Spirit. If the company is no longer interested in passenger goodwill like they once were in the good old days, perhaps they should at least calculate the public relations disaster that events such as this bring to the company. Many people have small animal pets, dogs, cats, etc. that are truly part of their family, perhaps their only family, and while most of us will never consider having them fly with us, we do very much identify as a pet owner with losing a pet under those circumstances. It is very, very difficult to justify the behavior of the SWA flight attendant in this situation. Southwest, step up and do a little more behind the scenes training to make sure that arbitrary in flight decisions by attendants, decisions that do NOT impact the safety of the flight, are made in a more compassionate manner.
back to the topic… taking a French bulldog on a plane is just silly for reasons mentioned earlier.
Jan 6, 2022, 2:21 pm
#19
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 592
Turning a plan around because someone took a very small and likely incapacitated dog out of a carrier would be an absurd over reaction. Perhaps Southwest should turn the plan around if you fail to wipe out the sink for the next passenger.
Jan 6, 2022, 2:52 pm
#20
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central US
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We all agree that taking a French bulldog on a plane is not ideal because the breed is challenged anyway, but there are other small snout breeds with similar known breathing problems. That said, we have no knowledge of why the owner made the decision to fly with the pet, perhaps some circumstances where this choice was deemed the lesser of evils. Until or unless SWA bans these particular breeds of dogs due to these known airway issues, the only question at hand is whether the FA acted appropriately or overreacted in an unnecessarily inappropriate manner. Everyone recalls the horror story of a few years back of a FA (not on SWA as I recall) demanding that a dog in carrier be put in the overhead bin rather than under seat, the dog making noise as if in distress during flight, but FA refusing to let pax take dog down. At the end of trip it was discovered that the dog had suffocated, and deplaning passengers were then treated to watching the owner trying desperately to perform resuscitation on the dog in front of small, very distraught children to whom the dog belonged. Common sense and compassion go a long way in these sort of decisions, and while all passengers are expected to follow FA directions, we also expect FA's to exercise good judgement, even if they are having a bad day or a long trip. As long as pets or companion animals are going to be allowed on board, everyone involved needs to be on their best game when situations arise. Hopefully the huge majority of FA's on SWA absolutely operate in this "best game" mode anyway, which is why these unfortunate lapses get so much attention.
Jan 6, 2022, 3:15 pm
#21
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When people see other passengers breaking a rule and the FA failing to intervene, it's an outrage.
When people want to break a rule but the FA intervenes to enforce the rule, it's also an outrage.
So the reasoning here goes.
The rule is the rule. If you don't like the inflight pets rule, blame all those morons who let emotional support pigs and ponies and turkeys loose in the cabin, not the FA.
When people want to break a rule but the FA intervenes to enforce the rule, it's also an outrage.
So the reasoning here goes.
The rule is the rule. If you don't like the inflight pets rule, blame all those morons who let emotional support pigs and ponies and turkeys loose in the cabin, not the FA.
Jan 6, 2022, 5:09 pm
#22
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Israel/United States
Posts: 1,234
I am sorry that you are so fearful of a small animal. If "dog bites seat mate" had happened, then we could be discussing the validity of removing (or at least uncovering) an animal in a carrier. However, that did not happen, and injecting "what if" scenarios are not particularly helpful in looking for better approaches. Are you familiar with the size of a French Bulldog? Do you have any concept of what would be involved for it to get much of your body into its mouth? Its very hard to imagine any injury, much less a significant injury, inflicted by that breed.
Jan 7, 2022, 1:24 pm
#23
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LAX/SMF/PDX/HNL
Programs: Hilton-lifetime diamond, Southwest A+, companion pass
Posts: 1,748
When people see other passengers breaking a rule and the FA failing to intervene, it's an outrage.
When people want to break a rule but the FA intervenes to enforce the rule, it's also an outrage.
So the reasoning here goes.
The rule is the rule. If you don't like the inflight pets rule, blame all those morons who let emotional support pigs and ponies and turkeys loose in the cabin, not the FA.
When people want to break a rule but the FA intervenes to enforce the rule, it's also an outrage.
So the reasoning here goes.
The rule is the rule. If you don't like the inflight pets rule, blame all those morons who let emotional support pigs and ponies and turkeys loose in the cabin, not the FA.
Also, the story says the dog succumbed to heat stroke, which seems inconsistent with a lack of oxygen.
Just two unresolved issues about this unfortunate event.
Jan 11, 2022, 10:52 pm
#24
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mexico
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Posts: 238
Here's the appropriate way to deal with this situation. But also, here is evidence that French Bulldogs run into breathing problems on planes and should not be brought onboard.
Jan 12, 2022, 9:14 am
#25
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central US
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Posts: 451
This is exactly what I would have expected from SWA, and is a perfect example of how a personal crisis for one person (or in this case one person's "family member"' who happened to be a dog) turns into a public relations bonanza for the company because the crew on the plane did the "right" thing. I hope that SWA top officials take note of the negativity that the SWA incident continues to generate, versus the incredibly positive reporting from the Jet Blue incident (even 4 years after the fact), and makes sure that crew understands the expectation that they assist with all passengers (2-legged and 4-legged) when doing so will not impact the safety of other passengers. Perhaps one of the SWA reps who monitor this thread can pass it along to those who have an opportunity to impact policy. In the original case reported, SWA could and should have done better - the famous SWA Spirit and can-do attitude from the past was sadly lacking that day.
Last edited by screeton; Jan 12, 2022 at 9:25 am
Jan 12, 2022, 12:04 pm
#26
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: IAH
Programs: UA Silver
Posts: 527
This is exactly what I would have expected from SWA, and is a perfect example of how a personal crisis for one person (or in this case one person's "family member"' who happened to be a dog) turns into a public relations bonanza for the company because the crew on the plane did the "right" thing. I hope that SWA top officials take note of the negativity that the SWA incident continues to generate, versus the incredibly positive reporting from the Jet Blue incident (even 4 years after the fact), and makes sure that crew understands the expectation that they assist with all passengers (2-legged and 4-legged) when doing so will not impact the safety of other passengers. Perhaps one of the SWA reps who monitor this thread can pass it along to those who have an opportunity to impact policy. In the original case reported, SWA could and should have done better - the famous SWA Spirit and can-do attitude from the past was sadly lacking that day.
Jan 12, 2022, 1:05 pm
#27
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central US
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(2) your premise is unreasonable from my perspective. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Thanks for your input.
(3) from a strictly public relations standpoint, do you not see any difference between the feedback on the recent SWA incident and the feedback from the Jet Blue incident of a few years ago? One is PR publicity that no responsible corporation wants, airline or otherwise, while the other is PR of a positive nature that cannot be bought, it just happens. Again, nothing to jeopardize passengers, but within limits, give someone a helping hand and a little leeway when they are faced with a crisis, whether of their own making or of the "it just happens" scenario.
Last edited by screeton; Jan 12, 2022 at 1:15 pm