Observations of SouthWest from a UA MM

Old Jun 24, 2021, 7:31 am
  #46  
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Most people think of an IDB as a David Dao dragged of the plane situation. In this case it was far less dramatic. My MSY to LAS plane was delayed my LAS to SMF plane was delayed but I could have made the connection. Instead WN preemptively bumped me from my LAS-SMF to a later flight that left the next morning. So it is a straight-forward IDB and realistically they would not have coughed up $1350 per ticket in cash unless it was.

Will I fly WN again? Only on flights which don't matter if I'm a day or two late and are very very cheap, i.e. definitely not flying to my daughters wedding next quarter on WN! They do not handle IRROPs well at all and their claim I initiated the flight change is quite insulting.


Originally Posted by WillCAD
So, your plane was there, it boarded passengers and took off, and you were not allowed to board with the rest of the passengers?
Originally Posted by pgh234
...and you had a confirmed (not standby) seat on that plane?

Last edited by usedtobeimportant; Jun 24, 2021 at 7:56 am
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Old Jun 24, 2021, 8:45 am
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by usedtobeimportant
Most people think of an IDB as a David Dao dragged of the plane situation. In this case it was far less dramatic. My MSY to LAS plane was delayed my LAS to SMF plane was delayed but I could have made the connection. Instead WN preemptively bumped me from my LAS-SMF to a later flight that left the next morning.
Therein lies the confusion. You started a thread about IRROPS and then later on said you were IDB'd with no context of what happened.
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Old Jun 24, 2021, 9:36 am
  #48  
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Originally Posted by ulmguy
Therein lies the confusion. You started a thread about IRROPS and then later on said you were IDB'd with no context of what happened.
That's because it started an IRROPS and then turned into an IDB without me knowing it. When-ever I've been IDBed from legacy carrier its very formal and I was clearly informed. But as I said earlier I think WN takes advantage that most of its passengers are kettles and tries to slide things by them.

For those of you who were delayed overnight on M,T and W of last week: Check if the plane you were scheduled to connect to left greater than or equal to the MCT of your arrival time of your incoming flight. It seems that WN preemptively rebooked people mid-flight even though they could have made their connections. That's an IDB.

Last edited by usedtobeimportant; Jun 24, 2021 at 9:47 am
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Old Jun 24, 2021, 11:06 am
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by usedtobeimportant
I think WN takes advantage that most of its passengers are kettles and tries to slide things by them.
Was this inaccurate comment really necessary?
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Old Jun 24, 2021, 1:02 pm
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Originally Posted by usedtobeimportant
That's because it started an IRROPS and then turned into an IDB without me knowing it. When-ever I've been IDBed from legacy carrier its very formal and I was clearly informed. But as I said earlier I think WN takes advantage that most of its passengers are kettles and tries to slide things by them.

For those of you who were delayed overnight on M,T and W of last week: Check if the plane you were scheduled to connect to left greater than or equal to the MCT of your arrival time of your incoming flight. It seems that WN preemptively rebooked people mid-flight even though they could have made their connections. That's an IDB.
The DoT rules are quite a bit more complicated. Simply misconnecting is not an IDB situation. The flight you are involuntarily denied boarding on has to be overbooked. You have to check in and arrive at the departure gate on time. The airline must not get you to your destination within an hour. No compensation is due if the aircraft is downgauged. IDB passengers must be given a printed explanation of their rights. Maximum compensation now is $775 or $1550 for domestic flights depending on your original fare and how long you are delayed.
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Old Jun 24, 2021, 1:12 pm
  #51  
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Originally Posted by jjbiv
The DoT rules are quite a bit more complicated. Simply misconnecting is not an IDB situation. The flight you are involuntarily denied boarding on has to be overbooked. You have to check in and arrive at the departure gate on time. The airline must not get you to your destination within an hour. No compensation is due if the aircraft is downgauged. IDB passengers must be given a printed explanation of their rights. Maximum compensation now is $775 or $1550 for domestic flights depending on your original fare and how long you are delayed.
Everything I bolded was pre-empted because WN changed my booking mid- incoming flight (without my permission) to a later connecting flight so when I touched down I no longer had a valid BP for the connecting flight I booked.

Not your typical IDB as you describe but still an IDB. First agent I talked to said it was a VDB which was BS, but her supervisor understood the gravity. Interesting you quote $1550 as I received $1350 in cash and a $200 voucher. I thought the $200 voucher was a bonus but maybe not.
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Old Jun 24, 2021, 2:08 pm
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by usedtobeimportant
Everything I bolded was pre-empted because WN changed my booking mid- incoming flight (without my permission) to a later connecting flight so when I touched down I no longer had a valid BP for the connecting flight I booked.

Not your typical IDB as you describe but still an IDB. First agent I talked to said it was a VDB which was BS, but her supervisor understood the gravity. Interesting you quote $1550 as I received $1350 in cash and a $200 voucher. I thought the $200 voucher was a bonus but maybe not.
Southwest was pro-actively booking you a spot on the next available flight. At the time your second flight may not have been delayed and it would have been a misconnect.
[removed by mod] [W]hy can't you see they were acting in your best interests?
[removed by mod]
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Last edited by ftnoob; Jun 28, 2021 at 5:35 am Reason: Personal attacks not allowed
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Old Jun 24, 2021, 2:25 pm
  #53  
 
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Yeah I am not understanding how this was IDB as you didn't have a confirmed booking on the flight when it was boarding. We have all been screwed by the proactive rebookings on the other "good" airlines and I never once thought to consider it as an IDB. (Nor would I unless I suspected nefarious human involvement)
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Old Jun 24, 2021, 2:47 pm
  #54  
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Originally Posted by pgh234
Yeah I am not understanding how this was IDB as you didn't have a confirmed booking on the flight when it was boarding. We have all been screwed by the proactive rebookings on the other "good" airlines and I never once thought to consider it as an IDB. (Nor would I unless I suspected nefarious human involvement)
I agree this is not the typical IDB where the GA calls for volunteers and keeps on increasing the compensation until no one takes the bait and they select someone to IDB. But I suspect they got pinged by the DOT for doing this before (the supervisor I talked to on the phone was clearly very cautious). It seems like a perfect backdoor way for an airline to side-step IDBs: bump someone mid flight under the auspicious that they are trying to rebook you. If one could do that then there would never be an IDB would there?

Anyway, they keep on throwing cash at me. I just got another $200 per ticket "LUV Voucher" what-ever that is. I said I didn't want it.
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Old Jun 27, 2021, 1:09 am
  #55  
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These are not "observations" but more like an irrops diary with a prologue.

Originally Posted by HighFlyinChar
OP got $200 voucher...that's more than a hotel in Vegas on a Monday night. Book the hotel and sell the voucher on eBay if it's that big of an issue and move along.
If the carrier provided $200 + hotels + meals for every displaced passenger for a system-wide national grounding coming out of a pandemic, they'd be screwed.
Agreed. I'd take the $200 voucher any day over the crap hotels that airlines issue vouchers for. Usually there is a long line to checkin at these places (not great anytime but definitely not at 1am) and the hotels are rarely full service (i.e. you might prefer a strip resort with 24/7 room service). Plus if you use the right credit card you can make a claim for the expenses due to delay. A much better solution than meal/hotel vouchers and does not put you at mercy of airline.

As for the 6am replacement flight I have usually found that airlines (and specifically WN) will accommodate a request for a later flight if space is available. You just have to ask nicely.

Kind of surprising that a 1MM miler is not familiar with these solutions. And UA does not provide these benefits to kettles unless they ask. In fact I often found they did not provide decent trip delay benefits to me unless I was 1K.
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Old Jun 27, 2021, 7:44 am
  #56  
 
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Originally Posted by usedtobeimportant
I don't think you understand the situation...
You're right, I am not getting the full picture. Would you be willing to post a timeline of the incident? As in, what happened in what order?

My curiosity is practical - I like to listen to other peoples' stories about travel difficulties so that I can try to avoid them myself, and know what best to do when something does inevitably happen to me. Unlike most FTers, I am an infrequent flyer, but I have found others' experiences posted here to be invaluable during my own booking and travel experiences.
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Old Sep 16, 2021, 7:28 am
  #57  
 
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Sorry to revise this thread. I stuck with this thread last night. I read the entire thread and got some ideas on what really happened a few months ago.
Originally Posted by usedtobeimportant
Update:
1) I did get it wrong and mis-wrote. The DOT has the rules not the FAA
2) I filed a complaint with WN and they responded quickly and have agreed it was an IDB (initially said it was voluntary but I pushed back) and they have given me $1350 per ticket in cash as per the DOT rules. This is odd as the DOT rule is 400 percent of the one way fee OR $1350 which-ever is smaller and my ticket was only $230.


But I still think they treated the passengers poorly by not giving hotel and meal vouchers.
OP got a great deal from SWA for the trouble of mis-connection (due to system melting down) and sleeping inside the airport at LAS. It would be nicer that OP acted more graciously. SWA tried very hard to win back your business.

Originally Posted by ulmguy
Therein lies the confusion. You started a thread about IRROPS and then later on said you were IDB'd with no context of what happened.
Totally agree with this assessment of this thread. I wish that OP stated the events more clearly and orderly. The piecemeal approach did not help with the discussion at all. That the IDB regulation from DOT was mistaken to FAA's did not help. OP tried to lecture the people involved in the discussion of this thread, but backfired badly. I think that the SWA FT community is well informed bunch. I, as a UA 3 MM 1K, won't never lecture anyone in this board.

Originally Posted by Boraxo
These are not "observations" but more like an irrops diary with a prologue.

Agreed. I'd take the $200 voucher any day over the crap hotels that airlines issue vouchers for. Usually there is a long line to checkin at these places (not great anytime but definitely not at 1am) and the hotels are rarely full service (i.e. you might prefer a strip resort with 24/7 room service). Plus if you use the right credit card you can make a claim for the expenses due to delay. A much better solution than meal/hotel vouchers and does not put you at mercy of airline.

As for the 6am replacement flight I have usually found that airlines (and specifically WN) will accommodate a request for a later flight if space is available. You just have to ask nicely.

Kind of surprising that a 1MM miler is not familiar with these solutions. And UA does not provide these benefits to kettles unless they ask. In fact I often found they did not provide decent trip delay benefits to me unless I was 1K.
Well, well, it was very confusing. Too much fires were directed at multiple repliers, Unfortunately. UA does not treat kettles very well, either. I gradually learned all the tricks in UA over the years. Certainly, OP certainly applied some UA knowledge to solve this situation. It was well done. But there is no need to lecture others in this SWA board.

Originally Posted by WillCAD
You're right, I am not getting the full picture. Would you be willing to post a timeline of the incident? As in, what happened in what order?

My curiosity is practical - I like to listen to other peoples' stories about travel difficulties so that I can try to avoid them myself, and know what best to do when something does inevitably happen to me. Unlike most FTers, I am an infrequent flyer, but I have found others' experiences posted here to be invaluable during my own booking and travel experiences.
I will fly SWA sometimes in the future. I am trying to learn more by reading more threads on this board. I know that SWA is a great airline and very well managed. There are a lot of devotees.

Happy travels.
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