Whats left in California?

Old Sep 4, 20, 7:49 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Posts: 1,239
Whats left in California?

With the addition of PSP, the only major hole I see in California is FAT.

Doing this by memory, so lets see if I get this right.

Here is what WN serves currently
  • SMF
  • OAK
  • SJC
  • SFO
  • PSP
  • ONT
  • BUR
  • LAX
  • LGB
  • SAN
  • SNA
Here is what is missing.what do you think, is anything besides FAT possible?
returnoftheyeti is offline  
Old Sep 4, 20, 8:54 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 131
It isn't holes in the CA market, but the frequency of service. Difficult for me to fly from the east coast to Southern CA and only have access to LAX and SAN. Wish Southwest would offer some BWI to SNA or LGB non stop flights for those that want to go to Orange County, but avoid LAX congestion and quickly grab a rental car without needing a shuttle first. .
bgasser is offline  
Old Sep 4, 20, 9:52 pm
  #3  
nsx
Moderator: Southwest Airlines
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, United Club ex-Lifetime Member
Posts: 19,836
When I saw the thread title I was going to respond "Not much. It's all burned up!"
nsx is offline  
Old Sep 5, 20, 9:26 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LAX/SMF/PDX
Posts: 1,175
In the heyday of jet travel, the 1970s and 80s, PSA offered jet service to Fresno (FAT), Concord (CCR), Monterey (MRY), and Stockton (SCK). They used 727s, 737s, MD80s, and BAE-146s. Each airport had its own quirk:
-Fresno had a barber shop in the terminal where I would get my hair cut occasionally waiting for a flight.
-Monterey's runway was short and ended at a stone wall type barrier. Sometimes a jet aircraft would take up the whole runway and have to make a 90 degree turn just to begin a taxi.
-Stockton offered unlimited free parking -- well worth the one hour drive from Sacramento if you were connecting at LAX for a long vacation.
-And, Concord service only lasted a year or so. At the time, Contra Costa County was believed to be the tech growth area in CA. Silicon Valley was crops.

Some of the the other airports were served by propeller aircraft by United Express or Swift Air.

Many of the listed airports never had any durable passenger air service.
dlaue is offline  
Old Sep 5, 20, 11:19 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Programs: Marriott Titanium; WN A-list; UA Silver
Posts: 310
You forgot BFL. Assuming state government travel ever returns, I think a limited SMF-BFL service (1 or 2 flights on weekdays) could be profitable.
There are a ton of state employees who go to Bakersfield regularly from Sacramento. Every single one of them rents a car and spends an entire day on the road. Or they fly to BUR and still have a 3 hour drive.
Similarly, BFL also is home to a large number of state employees who have to come up to Sacramento.

I do think a LA/SD-FAT service would also make sense.

As much as I'd love an SBP flight, I don't think you can fill a 737-700 on that route.

I actually think in a few years STS might be able to support a flight to socal. Lots of people moving there these days and no one wants to drive to SFO/OAK.
nmpls is offline  
Old Sep 5, 20, 12:01 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Paradise
Posts: 1,204
Originally Posted by nmpls View Post
There are a ton of state employees who go to Bakersfield regularly from Sacramento. Every single one of them rents a car and spends an entire day on the road. Or they fly to BUR and still have a 3 hour drive.
He included BFL. Btw LAX-BFL for me is a two hour drive normally. There's no way BUR which sits about 25 miles closer, avoids the 405 and cuts out quite a bit of LA's traffic, is taking 3 hours to get to Bakersfield.
Yellowjj is offline  
Old Sep 5, 20, 5:00 pm
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA Plat & 1MM, DL Plat, Marriott LT Gold, HHonors Gold, Hyatt Explorist & IHG Ambassador
Posts: 12,724
FAT is useless to me but would be huge for the Central Valley and I'm betting there is a market of folks who are tired of paying the freight for UA regional connections.

AS has shown there is a market for STS but not sure that makes sense with the strong options that WN already offers at OAK, SMF, and even SFO.

Have become a big fan of CCR since JSX started flying there but again not sure the market is there - most of the potential customers are happy to schlep a few miles further to OAK or SMF.
Boraxo is offline  
Old Sep 5, 20, 5:57 pm
  #8  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Posts: 1,239
The problem with CCR is its not a commercial airport.

And many on the list are automatically excluded because of their size. Modesto could probably land a 737, but the secure area only holds about 20 people and the only bathrooms are outside security.

I’d be curious if Redding could take a 737. Mammoth could do winter flights rom LA.

But the only destination that for sure would make money (or have a chance to make money) is Fresno
returnoftheyeti is offline  
Old Sep 5, 20, 6:21 pm
  #9  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Living the dream in Antigua
Programs: AA PLAT 2MM, *A Gold, WN detractor
Posts: 38,025
Originally Posted by returnoftheyeti View Post
I’d be curious if Redding could take a 737. Mammoth could do winter flights rom LA.
Yes. Hughes Airwest used to serve RDD with DC-9's. They require a longer runway than the 737-800, for example.

And in 2008, President Bush landed there on AF1.
SJCFlyerLG is offline  
Old Sep 5, 20, 7:28 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: WN F9 HA UA AA IHG HH MR
Posts: 2,425
Originally Posted by dlaue View Post
They used 727s, 737s, MD80s, and BAE-146s.
And the best commercial aircraft ever built:


steved5480 likes this.
Tanic is offline  
Old Sep 5, 20, 8:33 pm
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 24,990
Possible with only 737s, or possible if WN expands its fleet to include some kind of smaller plane?

Some of those airports have only supported one airline flying RJs there pre-Covid, with flights cancelled in the Covid era. But WN doesn't have any RJs.

Also, define "major hole". Without anything in either northern California north of Sacramento, or anything in Oregon south of Portland, I'd say there's a geographic "hole" there, but whether it's better filled by an airport in far northern California or by an airport in southern Oregon, that I don't know. And whether it is enough of a population "hole", or only a geographic "hole", that I don't know either. And whether one airport in that area can fill the need of the whole wide area, that I don't know either.

Last edited by sdsearch; Sep 6, 20 at 10:21 pm Reason: fixed typo
sdsearch is offline  
Old Sep 5, 20, 8:58 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LAX/SMF/PDX
Posts: 1,175
Originally Posted by Tanic View Post
And the best commercial aircraft ever built:


The L-1011 service on PSA was only used out of LAX and SFO to destinations outside of California.
dlaue is offline  
Old Sep 5, 20, 9:04 pm
  #13  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LAX/SMF/PDX
Posts: 1,175
Originally Posted by SJCFlyerLG View Post
Yes. Hughes Airwest used to serve RDD with DC-9's. They require a longer runway than the 737-800, for example.

And in 2008, President Bush landed there on AF1.
Redding airport has a 7,000 foot runway, ample for 737s. It's an old military runway, if I recall correctly.

Likewise, APC (Napa airport), ex-military, has a longish runway, but never supported passenger service. It did serve as a touch-and-go training airport for Japan Airlines back in the 1980s.

And, the approach to PSP (Palm Springs) airport has a steep decline along a mountainside before reaching ground level. Aside from San Diego, PSP is probably the trickiest California commercial airport to approach.
dlaue is offline  
Old Sep 5, 20, 9:37 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: WN F9 HA UA AA IHG HH MR
Posts: 2,425
Originally Posted by dlaue View Post
The L-1011 service on PSA was only used out of LAX and SFO to destinations outside of California.
The PS Lockheeds operated in the 1970s pre-deregulation when PSA was only certified as an intra-California airline. Airports served were SFO, LAX, SAN and occasionally BUR.
tusphotog likes this.
Tanic is offline  
Old Sep 6, 20, 5:04 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LAX/SMF/PDX
Posts: 1,175
Originally Posted by Tanic View Post
The PS Lockheeds operated in the 1970s pre-deregulation when PSA was only certified as an intra-California airline. Airports served were SFO, LAX, SAN and occasionally BUR.
Sounds right, except for Burbank. The largest aircraft to ever service BUR was a 767. Runway too short for L-1011.
dlaue is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: