Points prices increase relative to total fare as some taxes become part of base fare
Mar 28, 2020, 5:25 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Programs: HIlton Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Southwest
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Points prices increase relative to total fare as some taxes become part of base fare
Booked a $313 Wanna Get Away Southwest fare two days ago for 20,970 points; but when I checked that same fare today it was reduced to $275 but cost same 20,970 points. Same pattern holds with several other fares I checked. While the points to cash formula has varied somewhat, this would appear to be a devaluation.
Mar 28, 2020, 6:04 am
#2
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Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
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Booked a $313 Wanna Get Away Southwest fare two days ago for 20,970 points; but when I checked that same fare today it was reduced to $275 but cost same 20,970 points. Same pattern holds with several other fares I checked. While the points to cash formula has varied somewhat, this would appear to be a devaluation.
Mar 28, 2020, 6:09 am
#3
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ORD, MDW or MKE
Programs: American and Southwest. Hilton and Marriott hotels primarily.
Posts: 6,459
I checked 4 or 5 fares to different places ( I was shocked at how cheap the fares are ) and they were all either 76 or 77 points per dollar. No devaluation there.
Mar 28, 2020, 7:11 am
#4
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Booked a $313 Wanna Get Away Southwest fare two days ago for 20,970 points; but when I checked that same fare today it was reduced to $275 but cost same 20,970 points. Same pattern holds with several other fares I checked. While the points to cash formula has varied somewhat, this would appear to be a devaluation.
Sounds like an IT glitch to me. Better to check out the facts first and remember that incompetence usually comes before malice.
Mar 28, 2020, 7:14 am
#5
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 51
I’m betting it’s just taxes.
http://www.natlawreview.com/article/...ation-industry
Federal excise tax relief — The Act also provides relief to air carriers from certain federal excise taxes that normally apply to transportation services, such as the taxes and fees on airline passenger tickets, the cost of carrying cargo and the purchase of aviation jet fuel. The excise tax holiday period begins on the date of enactment and ends on January 1, 2021.
Mar 28, 2020, 3:16 pm
#6
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: California
Posts: 1,127
Yes, there is a temporary devaluation between 3/28/20 and 12/31/20 because excise taxes on cash fares no longer apply.
Excise taxes, including:
Excise taxes are suspended for tickets purchased between
03/28/2020 and 12/31/2020
Excise taxes, including:
Excise taxes are suspended for tickets purchased between
03/28/2020 and 12/31/2020
-
- 7.5% of base fare for domestic travel within the Continental United States and between the Hawaiian islands; prorated for travel between the Continental United States and Hawaii.
- Arrival/Departure Tax of $9.50 each way for travel between the Continental United States and Hawaii.
- U.S. Transportation Tax of $18.90 each way for travel between the Continental United States and Puerto Rico.
- Federal segment fee of $4.30 that will be imposed on each flight segment. Flight segment is defined as a takeoff and a landing.
Mar 28, 2020, 4:13 pm
#7
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Location: Nashville -Past DL Plat, FO, WN-CP, various hotel programs
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THANKS for thread. (other comments removed by poster)
Last edited by NoStressHere; Mar 28, 2020 at 5:31 pm
Mar 28, 2020, 4:41 pm
#8
Join Date: Oct 2001
Programs: LTP, PP
Posts: 8,698
Logically, one has to expect a (sneaky?) devaluation in the near future. When things get back to "normal", they'll value cash paying customers over point redeemers more than ever. Watch for a big devaluation followed by double points promotions to placate the collectors.
Mar 28, 2020, 5:19 pm
#9
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
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Posts: 21,620
Logically, one has to expect a (sneaky?) devaluation in the near future. When things get back to "normal", they'll value cash paying customers over point redeemers more than ever. Watch for a big devaluation followed by double points promotions to placate the collectors.
Mar 28, 2020, 5:31 pm
#10
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: California
Posts: 1,127
You can't say the points are worth just as much today as they were yesterday. They're not.
As soon as I reprice the tickets, I get WN funny money back. Try the same thing with points at the same base fare as yesterday and nothing happens.
Mar 28, 2020, 6:10 pm
#12
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Posts: 2,889
Could you post the base fare for each? Otherwise, what you posted does not, by itself, indicate any devaluation as the points ratio is connected only to base fare (not all-in fare).
Mar 29, 2020, 6:43 am
#14
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I would not call this a devaluation by WN. The federal gov't has removed the taxes from paid tickets.
The "free" tickets did not have those to remove - or at least I do not think they did.
And, those taxes is why is was always a challenge to assign an EXACT point value.
The ratio has changed, but not because WN did anything. The federal gov't did.
The "free" tickets did not have those to remove - or at least I do not think they did.
And, those taxes is why is was always a challenge to assign an EXACT point value.
The ratio has changed, but not because WN did anything. The federal gov't did.
Mar 29, 2020, 6:59 am
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,043
I would not call this a devaluation by WN. The federal gov't has removed the taxes from paid tickets.
The "free" tickets did not have those to remove - or at least I do not think they did.
And, those taxes is why is was always a challenge to assign an EXACT point value.
The ratio has changed, but not because WN did anything. The federal gov't did.
The "free" tickets did not have those to remove - or at least I do not think they did.
And, those taxes is why is was always a challenge to assign an EXACT point value.
The ratio has changed, but not because WN did anything. The federal gov't did.
The reason that segment taxes and PFC's are not collected on award tickets are due to historical rulings on so called "zero fare" tickets. The TSA tax was implemented in 2001 after these rulings were made and is not subject to them. This is the reason why it is collected on award tickets in addition to revenue fares.
International fares are not subject to $4.30 segment tax and 7.5% excise tax. They have flat departure and arrival taxes (currently $18.90) which have been waived. Customs, immigration, and APHIS surcharges on international fares have not been waived.
Last edited by xliioper; Mar 29, 2020 at 7:10 am
