737 MAX

Old Dec 18, 19, 1:45 pm
  #46  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 92
The FAA issued a document dictating additional rules for the airlines on how to operate the 737 MAX jets when the grounded jet returns to the service.

The public has 30 days to comment on the document.
Where can we view this document and comment? I went to the FAA's website and don't see it.
oreocookies is offline  
Old Dec 18, 19, 1:59 pm
  #47  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 4,579
Originally Posted by oreocookies View Post
Where can we view this document and comment? I went to the FAA's website and don't see it.
https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/draft_d...L_Round-2.docx

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/draft_d...ft_Updated.pdf
LegalTender is online now  
Old Dec 18, 19, 9:01 pm
  #48  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MCI
Programs: CBP Global Entry, WN A-List Preferred, WN Companion Pass
Posts: 1,900
Google the first few words if blocked by the PW


The New York Times
December 18th, 2019
6:26PM Herb Time

Trump Called Boeing C.E.O. About Potential Shutdown of 737 Max

"President Trump called Boeing’s chief executive on Sunday to discuss the company’s plans to halt production of the 737 Max, according to three people with knowledge of the matter...."
steved5480 is offline  
Old Dec 18, 19, 10:05 pm
  #49  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: WN F9 HA UA AA IHG HH MR
Posts: 2,339
"Mr. Trump told the executive, Dennis A. Muilenburg, that he had heardthat Boeing was planning to permanently shut down the Max production line"

Did Trump get a confidential briefing from the FAA and spill the beans? I hope so.
Tanic is offline  
Old Dec 18, 19, 11:14 pm
  #50  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,342
If any report has the name Trump in it I'd immediately dismiss it. The current hyper-political atmosphere almost guarantees the report is at least hyperbole or an outright fabrication from either side.
YuropFlyer and steved5480 like this.
rsteinmetz70112 is offline  
Old Dec 19, 19, 1:45 am
  #51  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,646
Originally Posted by rsteinmetz70112 View Post
If any report has the name Trump in it I'd immediately dismiss it. The current hyper-political atmosphere almost guarantees the report is at least hyperbole or an outright fabrication from either side.
Did you read the link? While I understand, in principal, what you're saying, the report is from the New York Times.
ursine1 is offline  
Old Dec 19, 19, 12:59 pm
  #52  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,342
Originally Posted by ursine1 View Post
Did you read the link? While I understand, in principal, what you're saying, the report is from the New York Times.
The NYT has been guilty of absurd hyperbole as well.
mile ho likes this.
rsteinmetz70112 is offline  
Old Dec 19, 19, 2:56 pm
  #53  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Programs: IHG,Hyatt, Hilton Diamond, Marriott, Wyndham, SPG, United, Delta, Alaska, AA, Southwest
Posts: 5,308
. Boeing stock closed Friday 12/14 at ~$341 ( trump called Sunday 12/15 per the article) and opened Monday 12/16 at $328.............Did Boeing release a statement over the weekend ?
flyer4512 is offline  
Old Dec 19, 19, 7:06 pm
  #54  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,646
Originally Posted by rsteinmetz70112 View Post
The NYT has been guilty of absurd hyperbole as well.
I'd ask for some examples but I suspect we'd disagree over the term "absurd hyperbole."

The New York Times is one of the most respected newspapers in the world. It's reporting does lean slightly left, but it's editorial board is firmly conservative. I trust their reporting.
formeraa, smmrfld and bobunf like this.
ursine1 is offline  
Old Dec 23, 19, 10:25 pm
  #55  
JRF
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: AVL
Programs: DL Flying Colonel, Hilton Diamond & a few other lower levls here and there
Posts: 4,014
My thinking is starting to be we will only see the 737 Max return as a cargo plane. WN will sell them to cargo companies. Long term affect on WN will be devastating as the company sticks with the new business model of lots more higher fair seats to make up for loss of overall seats. Game changer as it will drive loyal customer to other airlines.

I recently flew on what must have been a leased old 737 to WN, it was not a nice site inside.

2019 I had the far worst travel year on WN in over 20+ years and walked twice with WN boarding cards on phone to other airlines and purchased walk up fare tickets.

The long term one airline model business plan worked great, those days are now gone. Time for a new business model.
JRF is offline  
Old Dec 23, 19, 10:29 pm
  #56  
JRF
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: AVL
Programs: DL Flying Colonel, Hilton Diamond & a few other lower levls here and there
Posts: 4,014
Originally Posted by lougord99 View Post
I think there is 0 chance the Max doesn’t fly and become a large fleet.

Boing has to much clout for anything else to happen.
It will fly allright, I agree with you there... but I don't see it returning to pax service, will be a global cargo bird. Too many systems on the plane are not redundant. May also be prohibited to carry haz cargo.
ryw likes this.
JRF is offline  
Old Jan 5, 20, 2:24 pm
  #57  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 92
New article in the New York Times today starts like this...

Even as Boeing inches closer to getting the 737 Max back in the air, new problems with the plane are emerging that go beyond the software that played a role in two deadly crashes.

As part of the work to return the Max to service, the company and regulators have scrutinized every aspect of the jet, uncovering new potential design flaws.
Not great! Appears the main concern is a wiring configuration...

The company is looking at whether two bundles of critical wiring are too close together and could cause a short circuit. A short in that area could lead to a crash if pilots did not respond correctly, the people said. Boeing is still trying to determine whether that scenario could actually occur on a flight and, if so, whether it will need to separate the wire bundles in the roughly 800 Max jets that have already been built. The company says that the fix, if needed, is relatively simple.

(...)

Boeing is still working to determine how likely it is that the wires could actually short circuit. The company does not want to make changes to the plane’s wiring if it doesn't have to, fearing that additional damage could be done during a repair.
But they are also looking into unlikely scenarios where the engine could have problems. It's all in the article.

Another little nugget from the article says that pilots in simulations didn't know how to deal with emergencies. I feel like we are headed toward a comprehensive full re-training of pilots to fly the Max, which should've already been the case. They designed the Max to not require re-training pilots and it was a lie from the start. Boeing should agree with a mandate requiring hundreds of training hours or give up on the Max - cutting corners is what got them into this mess in the first place.

In recent simulator tests with crews from American, Southwest and United Airlines and Aeromexico, many pilots did not use the prescribed emergency procedures to handle problems with the flights, raising the possibility that regulators could mandate flight simulator training or change the procedures before clearing the plane to fly. The F.A.A. is evaluating Boeing’s analysis of the testing.
Boraxo and 84fiero like this.
oreocookies is offline  
Old Jan 11, 20, 11:37 am
  #58  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Programs: AA 2MM - UA 1P / Hyatt Diamond - SPG Plat / Hertz 5* - Avis 1st
Posts: 3,598
$60 million in parting gifts for the Boeing CEO.

Create a corporate culture focused on Wall Street, design bad products, kill hundreds, get paid.

It is the Wall Street Way. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/b...imes&smtyp=cur
Wilbur is offline  
Old Jan 11, 20, 2:46 pm
  #59  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 92
I don't know if people still check this thread, but I just saw this NYT article and oh my goodness...

Boeing employees mocked federal rules, talked about deceiving regulators and joked about potential flaws in the 737 Max as it was being developed, according to over a hundred pages of internal messages delivered Thursday to congressional investigators.

“I still haven’t been forgiven by God for the covering up I did last year,” one of the employees said in messages from 2018, apparently in reference to interactions with the Federal Aviation Administration.

The most damaging messages included conversations among Boeing pilots and other employees about software issues and other problems with flight simulators for the Max, a plane later involved in two accidents, in late 2018 and early 2019, that killed 346 people and threw the company into chaos.

The employees appear to discuss instances in which the company concealed such problems from the F.A.A. during the regulator’s certification of the simulators, which were used in the development of the Max, as well as in training for pilots who had not previously flown a 737.

“Would you put your family on a Max simulator trained aircraft? I wouldn’t,” one employee said to a colleague in another exchange from 2018, before the first crash. “No,” the colleague responded.

In another set of messages, employees questioned the design of the Max and even denigrated their own colleagues. “This airplane is designed by clowns, who are in turn supervised by monkeys,” an employee wrote in an exchange from 2017.
Here's a question: at what point should criminal charges be explored??
Tanic and 84fiero like this.

Last edited by oreocookies; Jan 11, 20 at 2:56 pm
oreocookies is offline  
Old Jan 11, 20, 8:40 pm
  #60  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SJC, Northern Cal.
Programs: SWA RR BIS 6.2M, A+'20, CP'20, AA, UA Gold, Hertz PC, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 902
I think it will fly again carrying PAX at some point. They fixed the 787 issues and people are mostly past it. People still flew on DC-10s after their issues and after that Aloha flight had the top come off.

Sad, irrisponsible, and tragic circumstances all around.

Last edited by Wingrider; Jan 11, 20 at 8:47 pm
Wingrider is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: