ursine1

IMHO:

The Southwest / Boeing relationship is unbreakable. WN has demonstrated that it's willing to make changes that move it further away from it's operational past, but not in this area.

Ultimately, 10-15 years from now, when they're flying an all-MAX fleet, Gary will be lauded as having the foresight to stick with Boeing through the "hard times." The planes won't be named MAX anymore so flyers won't know or care. And they will have been acquired at a major discount, so WN's bottom line will look great.

Assuming there's not yet another MAX airframe loss once they return to service.

BearX220

As soon as a single supplier believes you're a captive who won't cross-shop the market, you're at a negotiating disadvantage. This is true whether you are procuring snow tires, a kitchen rehab, or medium-range jet aircraft. In this case Boeing has exactly one product to offer. The disadvantages of hewing to a faithful, "unbreakable" relationship no matter what far outweigh the pluses.

We all hope that is the case. Nine months after the LionAir crash, though, it is horribly obvious here that Boeing, the FAA, and the airlines are all punching in the dark. They keep discovering new uh-ohs and hey-wait-a-minutes. Even when the Max is retro-equipped and recertified for revenue service, we still won't know what we don't know... for who knows how long.

Obviously one more hull loss under similar circumstances would be the end of the type, and perhaps of Boeing as we know it today.

Boraxo

ursine1

Software and hardware fix, and likely some additional training.

Your opinion is horribly unrealistic. And Boeing hasn't "cratered."

To be clear, I'm not discussing what I think should happen, but what will.

rsteinmetz70112

.That is true except where a customer is able to obtain a "most favored" contract that would entitle the customer to the best deal given to any other customer for the same product. That type of agreement appears to have been alleged by some people using both Boeing and Southwest.

daloosh

Yeah, the rental car bussing is still terrible and standing for an hour on the MTA isn't any fun. I usually take the NY Airporter bus to Grand Central for $16. Get on the bus, get a seat and take a nap.

Back to the WN debacle, my nephew just moved to Newark from the midwest three weeks ago to leverage Southwest's access to his area of operations and WN dropped the boom on him. I guess he shoulda moved to Queens.

beyondhere

I thought the same, that Southwest leaving Newark might indirectly help TTN but I cautioned to mention it. For example, United is selling EWR-ORD one way fares in September for $104. American is similar. That is partly because of Southwest. Come February, a month in advance, United's lowest fare will be like $194 one-way and American the same, and suddenly people will wake up realizing that Southwest as competition helped keep low fares around. Hopefully the Central NJ and Lehigh Valley passengers will flock down to PHL where fares might be more competitive.

While Frontier could heed news of these EWR high fares and then commence TTN-ORD year round and it's low fares will be a draw, it is too erratic of a carrier and unfocused. It will go ahead and announce Birmingham, AL to Providence 3x weekly instead, as an Atlanta to Boston alternative.

Even after all these years in PHL TTN and RDU, it still decided not to cover PHL-RDU or TTN-RDU as a daily schedule this summer.

Jerseyguy

I agree that F9 is not the airline best to grow TTN, I was more referring to after the new terminal when it could attract another airline. I hope that Moxy comes but who knows if rumors are true.

toomanybooks

I know zilch about TTN, but was wondering if WN could ever go there.

kennethdmarks

FYI for anyone with flights in and out of EWR after 11/2/19 and unhappy with rebooking out of LGA: I've had success getting Southwest to honor full refunds, even in the case where I'd used Travel Funds to book the ticket. I had to ask to have the matter escalated since the first level agent wasn't able to give a refund, but after that point the rep came back and said their supervisor had issued a full refund.

ursine1

Did they mention how? Is a check coming to you for the travel fund amount? In general, even when they "go the extra mile" in cases like these, the travel funds are simply reissued as a voucher (full year to use, not name-limited, but can't be applied to taxes/fees without a work-around.)

kennethdmarks

Issued to the original credit card as requested. No check.

Jerseyguy

WN actually tried to start service in the early 2000s when it was in its alternate airport phase, but wanted TTN to build a new 4 gate terminal which they were all prepared to do, went thru everything even got a Finding of No Significant Impact.(FONSI) after doing an EIS but local nimbys forced the FAA to revoke the finding. WN said we won't go where we're not wanted and pulled out of the agreement. Now that Southwest's strategy is major airports, I don't think Trenton is in the cards. Trenton's new terminal will be 4 gates but now Frontier will occupy atleast 1 to 2 gates so the operation would be smaller. Also the 737-800 would need to take a penalty due to Trenton's 6006ft runway perhaps a 700 would have an acceptable penalty but they are phasing alot of them out. If Southwest decided to move back to an alternate airport plan in some of their more difficult cities then TTN might have a shot. They'd have to give up on PHL as the catchment a mix of the northern part of Philadelphia's catchment and southern part of Newark's catchment About 2.5 million people in an area where Trenton would be closer and a good option. If WN got A220s they would be in a great position for Trenton but I think we'll see Moxy first. I'd love to have a small Southwest station here but I highly doubt it.

ursine1

Interesting. That's actually a violation of the Visa and MasterCard merchant agreements. You can't receive a credit or refund back to your card that's greater than the original charge. Just like you can't receive a refund back to a different card than the one used, even if that card account is now closed.
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Although many merchants do violate this policy, it's still surprising to me to see Southwest do so.

When a similar situation happened to me I was initially told they could only refund the travel funds portion as a voucher. I pushed and eventually received a check.

spongenotbob

Wait, someone relocated to Newark specifically to be able to fly WN?

Ummm. Okay...