Trump grounds Max8/9

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Old Mar 13, 19, 5:06 pm
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Originally Posted by flame7926 View Post
So what does Norwegian do? They have quite a few of these and unlike Southwest, dont have hundreds of other planes to fill the gap with. Fair amount of their transatlantic flights use these and they were already struggling financially

Ask Boeing to pay for it.

Norwegian Air demands Boeing compensate it for grounded 737 Max planes
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Old Mar 13, 19, 5:10 pm
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Originally Posted by wiivile View Post
Can Trump unilaterally do that?
I know it was technically the FAA that did it, but is the FAA not at all independent?

I'm just curious, I'm not making a judgment call either way.
Yes the FAA is independent. Basically, as I see it, it comes down to this: The FAA made the call and he's taking the credit (As he's prone to do).
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Old Mar 13, 19, 5:10 pm
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Originally Posted by exwannabe View Post
The way it works is that all agencies in the administration have a political appointee at the top. They will do what the President tells them.

There are some independent and quasi independent agencies (like the FED) but the FAA is not such.
Only if you actually appoint someone to the position. The current director has been acting for over a year.
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Old Mar 13, 19, 5:16 pm
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At least for WN, if they decide they need to short term bring in some lift, they only need to find 737s with sufficient Y seating. Not having seat reservations or an F cabin means they could wet or dry lease lift relatively easily (assuming pax don't mind random non Southwest liveries and cabins)
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Old Mar 13, 19, 5:34 pm
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Originally Posted by exwannabe View Post
The way it works is that all agencies in the administration have a political appointee at the top. They will do what the President tells them.

There are some independent and quasi independent agencies (like the FED) but the FAA is not such.
Starting to get into dangerous "political" territory here, so I'll stick to the facts:

Trump hasn't nominated anyone to head the FAA (one of long list of "open" positions), so for the last 14 months the agency has been run by it's acting administrator Daniel Elwell. The FAA’s top three positions are all held by officials who "shifted up" to cover their bosses's position in an acting capacity (including deputy administrator Carl Burleson & chief of staff Tina Amereihn).

There were reports that Trump wanted his eminently unqualified longtime personal pilot to lead the FAA (an $18 billion, 45,000 person federal regulatory agency), but apparently he was talked out of that.

Also of note is that Elwell's boss is Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao, who is Mitch McConnell's wife.

All of Trump’s proposed budgets cut hundreds of millions from the FAA's annual budget. For two years Trump pushed a plan to privatize air traffic control which would have eliminated about 60% of employees. That idea seems dead now.

Airline enforcement fines have dropped 88% in two years and lengthy tarmac delays have doubled.

The generally close relationship between the President and the FAA (and major industry players, like airlines and Boeing) is seemingly more cozy these days.
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Old Mar 13, 19, 5:37 pm
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Originally Posted by KenTarmac View Post
Yes the FAA is independent. Basically, as I see it, it comes down to this: The FAA made the call and he's taking the credit (As he's prone to do).

See my post above.
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Old Mar 13, 19, 6:12 pm
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Yes planes can be ferried empty. Luckily a good number of them were at or in route to MX bases. There's only a few at out stations (BUR, MSP, CHS, AUS, EWR off the top of my head). Luckily a bunch were at MDW, PHX, DAL, HOU, BNA, etc.

And WN is NOT bringing back the -300. There is zero chance of this. I will literally eat a crow if that happens.
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Old Mar 13, 19, 6:36 pm
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Originally Posted by 737MAX8 View Post
Yes planes can be ferried empty. Luckily a good number of them were at or in route to MX bases. There's only a few at out stations (BUR, MSP, CHS, AUS, EWR off the top of my head). Luckily a bunch were at MDW, PHX, DAL, HOU, BNA, etc.

And WN is NOT bringing back the -300. There is zero chance of this. I will literally eat a crow if that happens.
That's like using the words "never" and "always", and since this multi-aircraft grounding for an extended period of time, SWA is in new territory. If the software update for the Max fleet gets delayed until May, or June, or later, then SWA is into the peak summer travel season absent 34 airframes. Anything is possible, especially if, the Lord forbid, another max goes down once they start flying again.
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Old Mar 13, 19, 7:46 pm
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I read where Boeing was working on a software and hardware fix after the MAX8 Indonesia crash but it was delayed due to government shutdown.

Last edited by ftnoob; Mar 13, 19 at 10:57 pm Reason: this isn't OMNI-PR
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Old Mar 13, 19, 7:49 pm
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There were approximately 37,000 deaths on US Highways in 2017. Do the networks care? Why is all the focus always on aviation or Naval ships?
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Old Mar 13, 19, 8:03 pm
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Originally Posted by OPNLguy View Post
That's like using the words "never" and "always", and since this multi-aircraft grounding for an extended period of time, SWA is in new territory. If the software update for the Max fleet gets delayed until May, or June, or later, then SWA is into the peak summer travel season absent 34 airframes. Anything is possible, especially if, the Lord forbid, another max goes down once they start flying again.
I still stand by my comment will say never. It will never happen.
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Old Mar 13, 19, 8:10 pm
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Not real certain about MAX8/9 groundings. Flight Aware shows 44 in the air as of 9pm CDT. One just left Hobby for BWI so I doubt that was for "relocation". Apparently the order was not intended for immediate grounding. Perhaps after todays schedules? Also WestJet has one enroute to Canada. So much for the "ban".
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Old Mar 13, 19, 8:15 pm
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Originally Posted by ALARISstl View Post
There were about a dozen SWA Max8s airborne when the announcement was made according to Flightradar24. Would imagine those folks watching CNN onboard had a uncomfortable feeling to say the least.
It *seems* to be (if the two crashes are any guidance) an issue during the climb-out after takeoff. So if I were on one of those flights and made it to cruise, I wouldn't be that worried.

(And in fact I WAS on a WN 738MAX flight last night and that is exactly how I felt once we made it past the initial climb.)

RIP to the passengers & crew, and loving thoughts to their family, on the Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines flights. Air travel is amazingly safe these days but we should never lose sight of the concept of Safety First - and may it never become just a slogan.
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Old Mar 13, 19, 8:23 pm
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Originally Posted by TEBraniff View Post
Not real certain about MAX8/9 groundings. Flight Aware shows 44 in the air as of 9pm CDT. One just left Hobby for BWI so I doubt that was for "relocation". Apparently the order was not intended for immediate grounding. Perhaps after todays schedules? Also WestJet has one enroute to Canada. So much for the "ban".
Appears that FlightAware has not received the updated aircraft flight plans. Other tracking sites such as Flightstats show the correct aircraft types.
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Old Mar 13, 19, 8:36 pm
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Originally Posted by ElmhurstNick View Post
I'm curious to see if any 737-800 lines get cancelled to put those planes on Max 8 routes instead. May as well cancel the lines with lower revenue and the higher flexibility of rerouting passengers. I'd think that shuttle routes like DAL-HOU might temporarily lose a frequency or two.
Maybe they will cannibalize the final two weeks of HOU-MEX 700 service. Already decreased to two RTs per day and WN's loads have dropped.
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