Southwest Safety

Old Feb 28, 2019, 11:46 am
  #1  
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Southwest Safety

So, I'm a very frequent flyer (2-3x per month) and have tons of respect for the aviation safety system in the USA. I realize how safe the system is, why it so safe, and much more. I don't consider myself a nervous-nelly, but I also know that despite this bad things can indeed still happen (like the 767 that just plunged into the ground near Houston).

Anyway, all the negative news at Southwest has given me some pause about them.... and I wonder if I am alone on this one?

Having a bunch of super pissed off mechanics can't be good for safety. We've also had (what seems like) more incidents with things like runway incursions, wingtips hitting ground, etc. and these incidents seem to happen with (slightly) more frequency than at the other carriers. I also can't help to notice a good number of the 700 series aircraft (in particular) are looking VERY long in the tooth... and yes I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything in terms of actual safety.

Please don't respond with the "your safer on the plane than in your car" stuff as I get that, what I'm wondering is Southwest-specific and in comparison with the other major carriers... Do you have concerns? Do we have reason to be concerned? Or is this all just a blip and you think Southwest is just as safe any other major carrier at this point?

Last edited by txhyattlvr; Feb 28, 2019 at 12:03 pm
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 11:50 am
  #2  
 
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Originally Posted by lighthouse206
these incidents seem to happen with (slightly) more frequency than at the other carriers.
Southwest most probably have more take off and landings than most of the large US carriers. If not all. That would probably why they appear to have slightly more incidents.
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Last edited by FN-GM; Feb 28, 2019 at 12:39 pm
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 11:53 am
  #3  
 
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No concerns here.
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 12:19 pm
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1. Absolutely none
2. (see #1 above)
3. Yes/statistically more so.
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 12:24 pm
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No concerns here. No mechanic is going to actually put lives at risk. Any possible impact from all this is strictly a slow down in work. Its a bargaining tool. As far as other incidents yes since they operate more flights daily in the U.S the odds are higher for more reports of minor occurrences.
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 1:30 pm
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Originally Posted by PlaneJane1
No mechanic is going to actually put lives at risk.
This was my first thought when reading OP's post but then I was thinking about the real life situation. if you have a couple mechanics working on something and they're talking about work problems things could get missed. Or if they're under stress from how this could be impacting their home life it could lead to misses. It reminds me of the "Sterile Cockpit" rule.

It does seems like WN has had some news stories lately but i feel like there's been an uptick in plane crashes or other incidents (Lithium Battery fires) in general lately.
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 2:16 pm
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I ditched AA back in June 2017 for a plethora or reasons and one was tired of flying in crappy old MD-80's every time I went from DFW-IAD. I have had one problem since then in over 50 flights with SW and it was handled so well I could not complain. DCA-DAL flight diverted to BWI 45 min in due to mechanical problem. Like was said before I don't believe the mechanics will do anything to risk the passengers because all it would take is something stupid like that to put the company, and their jobs/pensions, at risk. I have to book several flights to DC (once my fraud compromised corporate travel card is replaced) and I will continue to book SW and not look back. I know there are ongoing issues but honestly I am just not going to worry about it.
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 2:36 pm
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Originally Posted by Buzzardgut
This was my first thought when reading OP's post but then I was thinking about the real life situation. if you have a couple mechanics working on something and they're talking about work problems things could get missed. Or if they're under stress from how this could be impacting their home life it could lead to misses. It reminds me of the "Sterile Cockpit" rule.

It does seems like WN has had some news stories lately but i feel like there's been an uptick in plane crashes or other incidents (Lithium Battery fires) in general lately.
There are a lot of checks and balances in place. Its not like 1-2 guys do some work and off it goes. These are highly trained professionals not entry level positions.
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 2:50 pm
  #9  
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It would take some genuine statistics skills to show correlation for any increased likelihood of maintenance-related problems at Southwest. To some degree, Southwest does run their fleet a bit harder than American, United or Delta (talking stage lengths here, and number takeoffs/landings per frame). According to the MIT airline data project, WN's average flight length was 754 miles in 2017, compared with 1,240 miles at AA, 1,141 at Delta, 1,589 at United, 1,236 at Alaska and 1,070 at JetBlue. In fact, they have the shortest average stage length of any US carrier, including Hawaiian Airlines.

What's that mean? More wear/tear on the airframes which could possibly explain fuselage fatigue incidents (SWA812, SWA2294) and maybe engine metal fatigue (SWA1380 and a related incident in 2016 on an MSY-MCO flight). I have to believe that every negative news story creates more incentive for an airline to get things right. Southwest has so far managed to maintain their brand reputation. I cannot believe anyone at the company would knowingly put their own life, nevermind their customer's life, at risk. They run a professional operation.

That said, there certainly have been a string of news stories that give me pause about Southwest. I'm not planning much if any travel on them this year even in markets where they make sense for me. Between the mechanical-related delays and their on-time performance in markets where I'd be likely to use them (LAX-SFO, for example) I've got other options I'd prefer.
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Last edited by dll; Feb 28, 2019 at 2:59 pm
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 3:17 pm
  #10  
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Originally Posted by PlaneJane1
No concerns here. No mechanic is going to actually put lives at risk. Any possible impact from all this is strictly a slow down in work. Its a bargaining tool. As far as other incidents yes since they operate more flights daily in the U.S the odds are higher for more reports of minor occurrences.
So you think pissed off workers do as good of work as non-pissed off workers? I wonder what Herb would say about that...

This situation really bothered me:
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...tleblower-case

Punishing a guy for noticing a major crack in a fuselage? And then letting it blow into something every mechanic knew about? To me, this situation speaks to a culture that has some serious issues... nobody should be punished for noticing a major problem and doing whatever is necessary to see it dealt with...
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 3:20 pm
  #11  
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Originally Posted by TXWayne
I ditched AA back in June 2017 for a plethora or reasons and one was tired of flying in crappy old MD-80's every time I went from DFW-IAD. I have had one problem since then in over 50 flights with SW and it was handled so well I could not complain. DCA-DAL flight diverted to BWI 45 min in due to mechanical problem. Like was said before I don't believe the mechanics will do anything to risk the passengers because all it would take is something stupid like that to put the company, and their jobs/pensions, at risk. I have to book several flights to DC (once my fraud compromised corporate travel card is replaced) and I will continue to book SW and not look back. I know there are ongoing issues but honestly I am just not going to worry about it.
All well and good, but I guess what I really wonder is if WN is heading for an Alaska 261 type situation: an entirely preventable accident that is the result of arrogance, hubris, and **really** unhappy mechanics....
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 6:06 pm
  #12  
 
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Then you should absolutely fly another airline.

I am not concerned and will continue to fly Southwest. I'm not sure how my feelings, which is what you were asking for, affect your feelings. I don't understand why you would choose to fly an airline or not on safety concerns based upon what I feel about the airline.

I just don't understand what the point of your post was?
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 6:49 pm
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OP clearly has some issues with WN. Our thoughts obviously won’t change them. Pointless thread IMO.
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 6:54 pm
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Part of why I think that letting family members non-rev is so important is that every flight there could be your parent, your kid, your partner...and you might not even know it. I can't imagine mechanics with WN, or any airline in a country with free speech, would do anything but raise a huge stink if they felt planes were taking off dangerous. And that's not even talking about pilots...
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Old Feb 28, 2019, 7:05 pm
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Originally Posted by lougord99
I'm not sure how my feelings, which is what you were asking for, affect your feelings. I don't understand why you would choose to fly an airline or not on safety concerns based upon what I feel about the airline.
Or read what perfect strangers feel about a hotel, a restaurant, an inner city neighborhood or a movie to guide other's decision-making. Crazy, right?

SWA pilots say it's wrong to "simply blame our issues on recalcitrant mechanics going rogue."

State of Managerial Emergency
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