Lost out on $1500 voucher due to being relatively calm
Jan 15, 2019, 10:32 pm
#1
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Lost out on $1500 voucher due to being relatively calm
Hey all. Was booked DEN-BWI this evening and the captain indicated that there was a delay with the paperwork. To WN veterans it was obvious that there was a problem that was preventing pushback. After 30 min or so the Ops Agent came on board and indicated that the aircraft was 1000 pounds overweight, and they needed 5 volunteers to take a later flight for a $1500 voucher. My hand immediately shot up and I began moving to the aisle from my seat 17A (window). Only one or two other hands immediately went up.
While I made my way to the aisle and towards the front, light bulbs were going off in other passengers heads, and those with better access to the front of the plane took advantage of their better positioning. There was jostling and a lot of enthusiasm on the part of those at the front of the plane who had become interested in the offer. The Ops agent selected those who made it to him first, there was a processing delay, one person ended up declining (apparently), but eventually I lost out on a voucher that was 3 times higher than any other I had seen offered, in 20 years of WN travel.
I’m not the kind to kick and scream when I don’t get what I want, and to be honest I have never seen this scenario in 20+ years of flying WN. However, it seems like there should have been a better way. Being an elite on WN carries so few benefits, it would have been nice to have the bump offer extended to A+ and then A-list, first.
Your thoughts please.
While I made my way to the aisle and towards the front, light bulbs were going off in other passengers heads, and those with better access to the front of the plane took advantage of their better positioning. There was jostling and a lot of enthusiasm on the part of those at the front of the plane who had become interested in the offer. The Ops agent selected those who made it to him first, there was a processing delay, one person ended up declining (apparently), but eventually I lost out on a voucher that was 3 times higher than any other I had seen offered, in 20 years of WN travel.
I’m not the kind to kick and scream when I don’t get what I want, and to be honest I have never seen this scenario in 20+ years of flying WN. However, it seems like there should have been a better way. Being an elite on WN carries so few benefits, it would have been nice to have the bump offer extended to A+ and then A-list, first.
Your thoughts please.
Jan 15, 2019, 10:49 pm
#2
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Jan 16, 2019, 7:09 am
#4
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Though I appreciate the thought about offering to "elite" passengers first - the idea is just not practical. The top concern was to get the damn plane out of there. Taking time to go through the process of selecting or offering to others just adds time and complications.
How many of the ma/pa kettles even know what the hell an A-Lister is? Guessing some might think if they had a "A" boarding position, they would be A-listers. LOL!
Sorry - they did the best they could. Only thing that seems a bit strange is the dollar amount. I am sure they could have gotten 5 folks at $1,000.
How many of the ma/pa kettles even know what the hell an A-Lister is? Guessing some might think if they had a "A" boarding position, they would be A-listers. LOL!
Sorry - they did the best they could. Only thing that seems a bit strange is the dollar amount. I am sure they could have gotten 5 folks at $1,000.
Jan 16, 2019, 8:47 am
#5
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It is not different at the gate. People seated closer to the podium and who can run faster get the worm (or voucher).
WN ought to simply take the first 5 passengers who can make it forward. That is an advantage to those who are nimble, seated forward, and in the aisle.
Would you post the same thing if you misconnected at BWI and missed an important meeting while the agent sorted out priorities.
WN ought to simply take the first 5 passengers who can make it forward. That is an advantage to those who are nimble, seated forward, and in the aisle.
Would you post the same thing if you misconnected at BWI and missed an important meeting while the agent sorted out priorities.
Jan 16, 2019, 9:49 am
#6
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Tongue in cheek but also probably somewhat will be taken seriously -
Convey your experience to the Risk Management / Legal team at WN.
I bet they'll take a dim view of an OP's agent potentially starting a stampede on a fully loaded airplane moments from take off !
I can't really think of another fairer but practical method once on the plane if minimizing delays is important.
Convey your experience to the Risk Management / Legal team at WN.
I bet they'll take a dim view of an OP's agent potentially starting a stampede on a fully loaded airplane moments from take off !
I can't really think of another fairer but practical method once on the plane if minimizing delays is important.
Jan 16, 2019, 10:00 am
#7
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As WN does not intentionally overbook any longer, it is no longer a regular occurence, but for the carriers which do, the SOP is to offload the aircraft and then ask. The problem with the WN flight is that, unlikely as it is that nobody would jump at the $1,500, if that had happened, imagine the mess as the flight could not depart. The prospect of five Dao's likely does not excite anyone.
Jan 16, 2019, 10:31 am
#9
Join Date: Sep 2002
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As WN does not intentionally overbook any longer, it is no longer a regular occurence, but for the carriers which do, the SOP is to offload the aircraft and then ask. The problem with the WN flight is that, unlikely as it is that nobody would jump at the $1,500, if that had happened, imagine the mess as the flight could not depart. The prospect of five Dao's likely does not excite anyone.
Jan 16, 2019, 10:44 am
#10
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I think that you misunderstood the context.
WN does not intentionally overbook. Almost a certainty that the situation OP encountered was occasioned by unfavorable winds and or other ATC factors which would have caused a fuel diversion as loaded. Alternatively, a technical fault which did not ground the aircraft but required a lower flight level and thus more fuel. Thus, the W&B problem.
AA, DL, and UA all overbook as a practice and thus run the risk of an occasional oversale. None of the three will intentionally board the flight and then start seeking volunteers. That takes care of the overbooking / oversale issue occasioned by RM/IM policy.
Rather, had the situation which befell the WN flight occurred on one of the legacies, the aircraft would have been offloaded and the oversale dealt with.
WN does not intentionally overbook. Almost a certainty that the situation OP encountered was occasioned by unfavorable winds and or other ATC factors which would have caused a fuel diversion as loaded. Alternatively, a technical fault which did not ground the aircraft but required a lower flight level and thus more fuel. Thus, the W&B problem.
AA, DL, and UA all overbook as a practice and thus run the risk of an occasional oversale. None of the three will intentionally board the flight and then start seeking volunteers. That takes care of the overbooking / oversale issue occasioned by RM/IM policy.
Rather, had the situation which befell the WN flight occurred on one of the legacies, the aircraft would have been offloaded and the oversale dealt with.
Jan 16, 2019, 11:26 am
#11
Join Date: Sep 2002
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I think that you misunderstood the context.
WN does not intentionally overbook. Almost a certainty that the situation OP encountered was occasioned by unfavorable winds and or other ATC factors which would have caused a fuel diversion as loaded. Alternatively, a technical fault which did not ground the aircraft but required a lower flight level and thus more fuel. Thus, the W&B problem.
AA, DL, and UA all overbook as a practice and thus run the risk of an occasional oversale. None of the three will intentionally board the flight and then start seeking volunteers. That takes care of the overbooking / oversale issue occasioned by RM/IM policy.
WN does not intentionally overbook. Almost a certainty that the situation OP encountered was occasioned by unfavorable winds and or other ATC factors which would have caused a fuel diversion as loaded. Alternatively, a technical fault which did not ground the aircraft but required a lower flight level and thus more fuel. Thus, the W&B problem.
AA, DL, and UA all overbook as a practice and thus run the risk of an occasional oversale. None of the three will intentionally board the flight and then start seeking volunteers. That takes care of the overbooking / oversale issue occasioned by RM/IM policy.
IDB rates show WN behind the majors:
Jan 16, 2019, 1:04 pm
#12
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I think it would make more sense to offer $500. If five people volunteer, great. If only 3 people volunteer, raise it to $800. If you can get one, great. Raise the offer to $1,000. No takers. Raise the offer to $1,200. Two people raise their hands. Pick one. At the gate, all five get $1,200.
Granted, this takes longer, so maybe that's why they thought "$1,500 should do it" and they were right.
Another way to do this is offer $1,500, take all offers (up to a reasonable point, say ten people), then at the gate, give the A-listers a $1,500 voucher (say there's three), then take the next two that are easiest to re-route, and send the other five back on the plane. But that takes time too.
Unfortunately there is just no way to do this perfectly in a situation where everyone is on board.
On Delta, the kiosk will ask you if you are willing to volunteer for ? dollars and that saves time, but of course that only works in an oversale situation, not W&B calculations after everyone has boarded.
Granted, this takes longer, so maybe that's why they thought "$1,500 should do it" and they were right.
Another way to do this is offer $1,500, take all offers (up to a reasonable point, say ten people), then at the gate, give the A-listers a $1,500 voucher (say there's three), then take the next two that are easiest to re-route, and send the other five back on the plane. But that takes time too.
Unfortunately there is just no way to do this perfectly in a situation where everyone is on board.
On Delta, the kiosk will ask you if you are willing to volunteer for ? dollars and that saves time, but of course that only works in an oversale situation, not W&B calculations after everyone has boarded.
Jan 16, 2019, 1:47 pm
#13
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But there VDB's are way under the US3. Looks like WN doesn't intentionally overbook (as mentioned), but gives out somewhat lousy offers when they are oversold.
Jan 16, 2019, 2:11 pm
#14
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Good point. VDB's are subject to many factors but overbooking likely dominates.
I just have a hard time believing a flight crew and dispatcher aren't factoring headwinds and fuel loads before the plane is boarded.
I just have a hard time believing a flight crew and dispatcher aren't factoring headwinds and fuel loads before the plane is boarded.
Jan 16, 2019, 3:32 pm
#15
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Given the frequency with which people whine on this board about anything, it seems to be exceedingly rare. Weather can change at the last minute, etc.