screeton

A storm front made a shambles of Southwest operations in Dallas yesterday (Wednesday) afternoon and evening, with rain, wind, lightning all taking a toll, resulting in many delayed flights, and those were the lucky ones. Many flights were simply canceled after long delays. All pax with cancelled flights were told to claim bags at baggage check, and if they were still flying, recheck there to destination. This resulted in mass confusion and a lot of frustrated passengers. Many bags sat out in the rain, uncovered, and were delivered to the baggage claim area late, in our case, SEVEN HOURS after the flight had been delayed and then canceled. Credit goes to SWA for trying to rebook as many people as possible, some not being booked until Friday flights, but for those of us within drive distance who needed to work today, no benefit. We opted to wait for our bags and then rent a car to our destination rather than take an almost 24-hour delay. Had one of the ramp workers circulating thru the area not taken pity on all of the passengers to our destination (Little Rock) and gone back down himself to search for the "missing" cart of luggage, we would probably all still be waiting.

So... the root cause of all this misery was the weather (ramp closes when lightning is within 3 mi of Love Field, etc.) However, is it reasonable to expect bags to be retrieved in something less than 7 hours, and is it reasonable to expect the tarps to at least be thrown over bags to provide some protection from the weather? Dallas was the transfer point in our flight, so by opting to rent a car, we didn't use the other half of our reservation. Can any of that unused transportation be recovered? Some of our group were traveling on reward points and others business select. What about soaked luggage (and contents)? Any remedy there, other than just being glad we got it in one piece?

We fly SWA quite a bit, actually are pretty much exclusive SWA travelers. Most of the time, the travel experience is good to great, but when things fall apart, it seems to happen in spectacular fashion.

And those rebooked reservations... once we made the decision to rent a car, we started trying to cancel the reservations so they could be used by others who needed them. They could not be canceled on the SWA app.... the message was to call SWA, etc. We tried intermittently during a 5 hour drive last night, and again once at home this morning, but so far have been unable to get through to a human. The flight time for a couple of the reservations has passed, hopefully someone waiting stand-by could use them, and we are still trying to get through to cancel another rebooked reservation for this afternoon. Perhaps that is a glitch in the SWA system, or a deliberate policy to prevent pax from canceling after a SWA agent has arbitrarily rebooked, but had we been able to release the space without the hassle of trying to get a res agent, there would have been a better chance of someone else reusing the space.

steved5480

'Tis the Season, today is no better:

Wednesday 12/26:
https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_list...te&Other=Other

Thursday 12/27:
https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_list...te&Other=Other

OzzyOzzie

Flew out of LAX last night and the flight (LAX->MDW) that was due to leave one earlier earlier than mine (about 18:05 PST) and fortunately my flight (19:05 PST) was cheaper so I booked that one The earlier flight was delayed in Dallas so got into LAX 4 hours 36 minutes late and ended up arriving at MDW @ 4:05 CST. Mine was delayed at some other airport and we got in at 02:30, about 1 hours and 10 minutes late. MDW sure is eerie in the early AM hours. On the plus side no waiting at the few food places that were open LOL

Kevin AA

Of all the things to blame an airline for, severe weather is the dumbest one! Southwest cannot do anything about the weather!

The weather was just as awful at DFW, only 11 miles away.

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amer...-2018-a-2.html

Often1

OP - I am no fan of WN and its lack of interline agreements resulting in people getting stranded for days or paying a small fortune out of pocket on another carrier, but your complaints are misplaced.

1. The weather means that evacuating the field is immediate and mandatory. Who is the "they" you would want out on the field covering the luggage? If there is damage, WN is responsible for it up to its contract limits and those are plenty to cover what most people might have.

2. WN has a standby list a mile long on days such as this. When you no showed for your auto rebooked flights, the next people in line got the seats.

But, a better approach rather than hanging around for any appreciable amount of time is to simply head to baggage claim, have them cancel your onwards segment and let them know that as the bags are not timely available (not a matter of fault, just process), that the bags should be delivered at what would have been your onwards destination. Chances are that WN would have had the bags delivered to your house, but at worst, a quick run out to your local airport would have saved you some goodly portion of the seven hours.

1. As your onwards flight was cancelled or substantially delayed, you are entitled to a refund of the value of that segment to its original form of payment, e.g., credit card or points. There may be a fuss from WN about not having cancelled prior to scheduled departure of your new flights, so I would just send an email/complaint in noting that you have tried and cannot get through. At least there will be something time-stamped.

2. Damaged luggage should be replaced or repaired. If it is just water and it is not something which can't tolerate water, don't expect anything.

3. Your travel insurance ought to cover the rental.

joshua362

This is simply not true, from experience (twice), under "normal" operating procedures. Once you take off, the paid value of your entire ticket is "lifted" and is not refunded except for some small fees, if you choose to get home in another matter once en-route. Perhaps something will be done, maybe vouchers, in this matter because of the widespread circumstances but I was denied twice during isolated incidents (a diverted flight, a missed connection).

No idea how the ever popular travel insurance might handle it!

Often1

You simply failed to pursue the remedy clearly stated in WN's contract of carriage. Take a look at Rule 4(c)(4) on page 13. Makes very clear that you are entitled, if you wish, to a refund to the original form of payment if your "scheduled transportation is cancelled, terminated or delayed before the Passenger has reached his final destination."

If you have had poor results, what have you done to pursue the issue?

In my experience, WN reacts in very short order when you correctly point out that it is in violation of its own COC, Customer Service Commitment, or DOT rules. If that fails, although it won't get that far with WN, a short and sweet complaint to DOT using its online form will yield you a refund in short order. It goes without saying that WN is rules-oriented, so if you are wrong, it will fight you tooth and nail and you may then figure out how much you care to pursue in SCC.

DOT generally permits carriers to use any reasonable calculation to calculate refunds when the refund is due to an involuntary termination at a connection point. That could be the entire ticket, a segment-by-segment breakdown, or a percentage of the distance formula.

screeton

My original post made clear that I do not blame SWA for either the weather or the common sense rule to clear the ramp area when lightning is near - perhaps read my comments again. My dissatisfaction stemmed from the inordinate delay in getting luggage after the ramp started operating again, and after other later arriving flight luggage was being delivered to the carousels well in front of the luggage that had been sitting for hours. When the order goes out to clear the ramp due to lightning, how long does it take to throw the tarp that is attached to the baggage float over the bags? A couple of seconds perhaps??

As for the luggage being forwarded, maybe, maybe not. There were hundreds (or more) people circulating through the baggage area looking for their bags - at times it was almost gridlocked with people and rows of bags. Bags were being retrieved by individuals with no possible way to police whether the bags belonged to the owner or just looked like a nice bag to appropriate and take home. I've only had one lost bag in years of flying SWA, and that one was delivered to my hotel less than 12 hours later, so I'm sure that if the bag remained in DAL, it would have eventually made it to its destination. That's one of the things that SWA does remarkably well. However, the situation in DAL was such that many people obviously believed that it would be better to wait and retrieve their luggage rather than trust the forwarding process. As for rechecking it there... fine idea, except the line for the one agent handling that chore extended almost the length of the baggage check area.

I suppose that you had to be there to fully appreciate the situation.

joshua362

Doh, egg on my face! Thanks for pointing this out for others to benefit. Both times I was traveling for business so didn't (know to) peruse it further, just sucked it up plus the ancillary costs to sleep and get home.

In the case of the TPA/MCO/FLL to ISP diversion to BWI because of non op runway lights, they made it a point to broadcast over the loudspeakers, to 3 full plane loads, that no refunds would be given if anyone left to make it home on their own. Simply wonderful.

MrMan

This was a very significant weather event, enough so that an entire bowl game at the Cotton Bowl was cancelled during the event due to lightning. It's not like there are extra staff hanging around just in case a once in every x year event takes place. It sucks, I know, but that is cost of living a life that includes travel.

Often1

Anybody who travels frequently will eventually experience major regional IRROPS at a hub / major station for a given carrier. It is the nature of weather patterns.

When that happens, reroutes become poor at best and luggage piles up. There is only so much extra capacity in the system and at some point just having people standing around to tell you that they can't do anything just exacerbates the system.

Indeed WN will get the luggage to you. May take 2-3 days because of the IRROPS.. But, presuming that the bags are properly tagged and you file a report with WN, you would be surprised about how quickly things move. Bags are a lot easier than passengers to manage.

My only general advice is that once the issue becomes clear, e.g. massive IRROPS, either head for a hotel or head out by alternate means. The airport won't get better and the options close in. E.g., buses & trains fill up, car rentals dry up and hotels fill up. On the other hand, I rarely check bags and when I do, I also make sure that anything I care about is in my carry on. If it takes a few days for the dirty laundry to catch up, so be it.

wrp96

With an extremely large number of flights and passengers affected, and ground crew unable to be on the field if there is lightning in the vicinity, yes it is unreasonable to expect 1) someone to delay getting inside to throw a tarp over something and 2) that return of baggage would be immediate.

Consider that LIT, your final destination, can barely get bags for 1 normal flight out to baggage claim in less than 30 minutes, and then multiply that exponentially due to the larger amount of OPs at DAL. Also, you should've seen the pictures of lines and luggage at LIT baggage claim from the flights that diverted there due to this storm (reports of lines of 5-6 hours to see the Southwest and AA reps at LIT for rebooking, people sleeping on the floor with some not scheduled to get out of LIT until tomorrow).

All in all, for how surprising this storm was and how much it affected it OPs, I think you have to be happy enough that you made it home and you have your bags. Write in asking for a refund of the one sector and leave it at that.