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Southwest uses the same new Boeing plane in Indonesia crash

Southwest uses the same new Boeing plane in Indonesia crash

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Old Oct 30, 18, 2:12 am
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Southwest uses the same new Boeing plane in Indonesia crash

Article in USA today

The Lion Air plane that went down shortly after takeoff was a new 737 Max 8, delivered in August.

Southwest on Monday issued this statement on the crash of Lion Air Flight JT 610 from Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang: "The entire Southwest family extends our Southwest heart to Lion Air and offers our deepest condolences to each of the families and loved ones affected by the tragic accident in Indonesia. We are in touch with Boeing and will await the findings from this tragic event.''
Missing from the article is any discussion of Lion Air's horrible safety record. But with the plane being brand new, and some news stories suggesting crew reported a malfunction on the previous flight, this will definitely be interesting to follow.

The flight recorder has not yet been recovered.
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Old Oct 30, 18, 7:26 am
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Wow, so does Air Canada, American, Westjet, and United.
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Old Oct 30, 18, 9:06 am
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There are 219 737 Max planes delivered. (some may be a variant of the Max 8). See this link

Safety record on the carrier would of course have an impact. There are lots of articles online if you want to read them. Statement from one of them: "from July 2007 until June 2016 was banned, along with dozens of other Indonesian airlines, from operating within both EU and US airspace"
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Old Oct 30, 18, 9:12 am
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Just about the quality of journalism I'd expect from USA Today
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Old Oct 30, 18, 12:01 pm
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Alarming! Southwest also has human as pilots just like Lion Air!
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Old Oct 30, 18, 3:07 pm
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A nonissue here in terms of aircraft type ..... the 737 is incredibly safe and reliable.

For example:

I have an 11 year old jetta that runs like new with 155k miles on it.....i maintain it perfectly and is still extremely safe and reliable.
I have seen a 4 month old "new" car that someone has let the oil in the engine run to sludge and destroyed the engine....(15k miles with no oil change) and needed to be scrapped.

I suspect its the operator...as mentioned, it has been banned from EU and USA airspace.....for good reason.
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Old Oct 30, 18, 5:05 pm
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Originally Posted by isaac.chambers View Post
A nonissue here in terms of aircraft type ..... the 737 is incredibly safe and reliable.

For example:

I have an 11 year old jetta that runs like new with 155k miles on it.....i maintain it perfectly and is still extremely safe and reliable.
I have seen a 4 month old "new" car that someone has let the oil in the engine run to sludge and destroyed the engine....(15k miles with no oil change) and needed to be scrapped.

I suspect its the operator...as mentioned, it has been banned from EU and USA airspace.....for good reason.
I'm not sure your comment helps, as the plane was brand new -- delivered in August.

Also, fyi, the EU ban was lifted in 2016.

But yes, Lion Air has had a horrible safety record, and that has to be taken into account here.

Apparently, there were technical problems reported on the previous flight, including “unreliable airspeed.”

Lion Air plane had airspeed problem on flight prior to crash: official

'Panic and Vomit': Passengers on Downed Lion Air Jet's Previous Flight Recall Harrowing Trip

“About three to eight minutes after it took off, I felt like the plane was losing power and unable to rise. That happened several times during the flight,” he said. “We felt like in a roller coaster. Some passengers began to panic and vomit.”

That second article makes it sound like there were definitely issues with the plane. Maybe maintenance didn't appropriately address the issues. And perhaps bad decisions were made regarding whether it should have been flying at all.

I suspect other operators are now reviewing policies regarding operation after technical issues with their 737 MAX 8s.

Lots more info to come.
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Old Oct 30, 18, 5:36 pm
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Originally Posted by ursine1 View Post
I'm not sure your comment helps, as the plane was brand new -- delivered in August.
What he was saying was the age of the vehicle doesn't matter if the owners don't take care of it.
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Old Oct 30, 18, 5:43 pm
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Originally Posted by ursine1 View Post
Apparently, there were technical problems reported on the previous flight, including “unreliable airspeed.” ... “About three to eight minutes after it took off, I felt like the plane was losing power and unable to rise. That happened several times during the flight,” he said. ... Maybe maintenance didn't appropriately address the issues. And perhaps bad decisions were made regarding whether it should have been flying at all.
I'm no airframe mechanic, but this sounds like a clogged/plugged static airspeed port.

... and I don't get your fear-mongering ("I suspect other operators are now reviewing policies regarding operations ...") when WN et al. have proven that these things fly just fine, provided your crew and maintenance staff are on the ball.
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Old Oct 30, 18, 5:48 pm
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https://www.trulygeeky.com/worst-car-accidents-ever/
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This most recent (July 12, 2016) worst car crash branded as the snapchat killer accident is the best example for a reckless driving. Addil Haroon, 19 years old ran his hired Audi A6 at a speed of 142 mph and he ended smashing into the car of Joseph Brown-Lartey, 25 (another Audi). As the force was heavy, it made the victim’s car split into two and it’s killed him instantly. The emergency services say that it’s the worst car accident they had ever seen
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I drive an Audi.
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Old Oct 30, 18, 6:58 pm
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Originally Posted by NoStressHere View Post
There are 219 737 Max planes delivered. (some may be a variant of the Max 8). See this link

Safety record on the carrier would of course have an impact. There are lots of articles online if you want to read them. Statement from one of them: "from July 2007 until June 2016 was banned, along with dozens of other Indonesian airlines, from operating within both EU and US airspace"
There are a number of posters in the Asian sub-boards of FT who refer to the airline as Sea Lion Air after a particularly dramatic (and fortunately non-fatal) runway overrun that swamped another one of their planes a few years back. And in general the airline isn't among the top tier of Asian LCCs.

Given the track record of the airline involved, my first tendency to assign cause is on their end and not a Boeing issue.
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Old Oct 30, 18, 11:35 pm
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Originally Posted by kennycrudup View Post
What he was saying was the age of the vehicle doesn't matter if the owners don't take care of it.
Oh, I understood completely what he was saying.

I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that perhaps there is a difference in the amount of "taking care of it" needed for an aircraft that's been around a while, and one that's only 2 months old. Which was my point.

While completely possible given Lion Air's track record, it would take a tremendous amount of actively "not taking care of it" to cause the technical issues such as are being reported with this particular aircraft in such a short time.

It remains completely possible this is all directly a result of Lion Air's maintenance issues. And of course, ultimately we may find out that the crash was purely operator error and had nothing to do with mechanical issues. Even that scenario wouldn't be very surprising, given Lion Air's history.

Originally Posted by kennycrudup View Post
... and I don't get your fear-mongering ("I suspect other operators are now reviewing policies regarding operations ...") when WN et al. have proven that these things fly just fine, provided your crew and maintenance staff are on the ball.
Please don't misunderstand my interest in this subject. The course of action I suggested would seem to be prudent, to verify just that -- that the crew and maintenance staff are indeed "on the ball," at least with respect to this particular type of aircraft. But this is, I admit, conjecture on my part.

At least until Boeing has had time to conduct their investigation and weigh in, and possibly update service recommendations.

Like I said, lots more info to come.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 5:50 am
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A fully or partially clogged pitot tube on ANY aircraft will cause issues and typically lead to a crash. The sensors on aircraft are very touchy and if you don't follow proper maintenance processes it will always end badly at some point. Good illustration here, https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...a3414/4271563/.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 7:57 am
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Originally Posted by kennycrudup View Post
....when WN et al. have proven that these things fly just fine, provided your crew and maintenance staff are on the ball.
Not sure if it can be PROVEN. They do have an excellent track record, for sure.

We do know WN has not had an accident. At this point, we do not know if WN has had a similar issue as the downed plane, but fixed it. We just don't know.

We do not know if it was an oversight, poor maintenance, something with a new version of the 737, bad fuel, or one of a thousand other issues.

With all that said, I still think WN does the best job taking care of their equipment and staff. Just an opinion.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 8:02 am
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Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
Sea Lion Air
I'd fly that airline...
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