Southwest uses the same new Boeing plane in Indonesia crash
Mar 11, 2019, 12:50 pm
#167
Join Date: Oct 2015
Programs: SWA CP, UA MP, Hilton G, SPG G
Posts: 69
as I mentioned in a previous post, this is the standard LUV fan Boi response.
Mar 11, 2019, 2:04 pm
#168
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 178
In this case, with safety questions being asked by many, the "high road" would be to allow changes without penalty, as simply a goodwill gesture if nothing else. It seems that SWA is constantly moving further away from the corporate traditions that made them great, and that's a shame.
Mar 11, 2019, 2:19 pm
#169
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central US
Programs: WN CP, HHonors, Hyatt Platinum, IHG Premier,LaQuinta Elite, Amtrak
Posts: 452
I wonder how much of the problem is the squeeze they are feeling from other factors. The dispute they have with the mechanics union is causing its own set of issues with flights needing to be canceled. Now asking them to ground Max 8 flights or allow customers to re-book flights without paying the difference is just another headache and another possible financial hit. I think it's easier to have great customer service when everything is going well. Everything does not seem to be going well for Southwest right now...
Mar 11, 2019, 2:25 pm
#170
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,403
None of currently scheduled Southwest Hawaii flights from OAK, SJC, or interisland are max. they all show 737-800 on the schedule.
Thus far 102 737-MAX (out of a reported 350 delivered) are currently grounded by regulators or voluntarily)
96 in China (list from @juliuswong on airliners.net), 4 in Ethiopia, and 2 in Grand Cayman.
100% of the 737maxes in each of the following fleets:
Ethiopian - 4
Grand Cayman - 2
Joy Air- 1
Air China- 15
Fuzhou Airlines- 2
China Southern- 24
China Eastern- 3
Kunming- 2
Lucky Air- 3
Hainan Airlines- 11
Okay Airways- 2
Shandong Airlines- 7
Shanghai Airlines- 11
Shenzhen Airlines- 5
Xiamen Airlines- 10
Come on Southwest--do the right thing.
Thus far 102 737-MAX (out of a reported 350 delivered) are currently grounded by regulators or voluntarily)
96 in China (list from @juliuswong on airliners.net), 4 in Ethiopia, and 2 in Grand Cayman.
100% of the 737maxes in each of the following fleets:
Ethiopian - 4
Grand Cayman - 2
Joy Air- 1
Air China- 15
Fuzhou Airlines- 2
China Southern- 24
China Eastern- 3
Kunming- 2
Lucky Air- 3
Hainan Airlines- 11
Okay Airways- 2
Shandong Airlines- 7
Shanghai Airlines- 11
Shenzhen Airlines- 5
Xiamen Airlines- 10
Come on Southwest--do the right thing.
Media in the USA are reporting that the MAX has also been grounded in Indonesia.
Mar 11, 2019, 2:27 pm
#171
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,403
Wow, I can't believe the hostility shown to anyone who would dare suggest even the remote possiblity the 2 crashes could have something in common and it might implicate...EGADS...the newest 737. Especially since every news organization in the US is doing the exact same thing. Do the haters all own Boeing stock? Which, by the way, took a dive after the crash.
Boeing seems to be down about 6.5% today. I'm not sure I'd describe that as a dive or not, although it is a day when the major indices are up by about 0.5-2.0%.
Mar 11, 2019, 2:44 pm
#172
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: STL
Programs: Southwest A+/CP, Hilton Diamond, National Executive Elite
Posts: 170
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKBN1QS1LJ
Sounds to me like something else was at play here, and not an angle of attack issue. Will be interesting to see how the investigation plays out.
Sounds to me like something else was at play here, and not an angle of attack issue. Will be interesting to see how the investigation plays out.
Mar 11, 2019, 3:03 pm
#173
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 178
Eye witness reports are pretty unreliable. I remember for the Buffalo plane crash in 2009, eye witnesses said the plane was "sputtering" and making weird sounds, but we now know there was nothing actually wrong with the engine or that would cause that - the plane just lost speed when the pilot wasn't paying attention and then he reacted in the exact wrong way to prevent a stall. It's possible something else was wrong with this flight than the angle of attack thing, but given that the black boxes have already been found, I'd just wait to see what they say. Hopefully we can get some info soon rather than it dragging on for weeks.
Mar 11, 2019, 3:33 pm
#174
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: STL
Programs: Southwest A+/CP, Hilton Diamond, National Executive Elite
Posts: 170
Eye witness reports are pretty unreliable. I remember for the Buffalo plane crash in 2009, eye witnesses said the plane was "sputtering" and making weird sounds, but we now know there was nothing actually wrong with the engine or that would cause that - the plane just lost speed when the pilot wasn't paying attention and then he reacted in the exact wrong way to prevent a stall. It's possible something else was wrong with this flight than the angle of attack thing, but given that the black boxes have already been found, I'd just wait to see what they say. Hopefully we can get some info soon rather than it dragging on for weeks.
Mar 11, 2019, 4:07 pm
#175
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ORD, MDW or MKE
Programs: American and Southwest. Hilton and Marriott hotels primarily.
Posts: 6,459
Just because airline B is wrong doesn't mean that Southwest isn't wrong. Your logic escapes me.
Mar 11, 2019, 5:32 pm
#176
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
The FAA has issued today an Airworthiness Notification regarding MAX aircraft.
The document primarily contains info regarding the LionAir crash (both due to the limited amount of data available from the Ethiopian Airline crash, and also I suspect damage control following perceptions that the LionAir investigation was moving too slowly).
Highlights:
-- External reports are drawing similarities between this accident and the Lion Air Flight 610 accident on October 29, 2018. However, this investigation has just begun and to date we have not been provided data to draw any conclusions or take any actions.
-- Ongoing oversight activities by the FAA include Boeing’s completion of the flight control system enhancements. The FAA anticipates mandating these design changes by AD no later than April 2019.
-- Design changes include: MCAS Activation Enhancements, MCAS AOA Signal Enhancements, & MCAS Maximum Command Limit.
The document primarily contains info regarding the LionAir crash (both due to the limited amount of data available from the Ethiopian Airline crash, and also I suspect damage control following perceptions that the LionAir investigation was moving too slowly).
Highlights:
-- External reports are drawing similarities between this accident and the Lion Air Flight 610 accident on October 29, 2018. However, this investigation has just begun and to date we have not been provided data to draw any conclusions or take any actions.
-- Ongoing oversight activities by the FAA include Boeing’s completion of the flight control system enhancements. The FAA anticipates mandating these design changes by AD no later than April 2019.
-- Design changes include: MCAS Activation Enhancements, MCAS AOA Signal Enhancements, & MCAS Maximum Command Limit.
Mar 12, 2019, 7:22 am
#177
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,509
Can "Boeing’s completion of the flight control system enhancements...no later than April 2019" be done w/o rotating MAXs out of service?
It's been 2 months since the CVR was recovered from Lion Air. Can't findings be revealed on a priority basis, or do we need to wait a customary year?
It's been 2 months since the CVR was recovered from Lion Air. Can't findings be revealed on a priority basis, or do we need to wait a customary year?
Mar 12, 2019, 8:11 am
#178
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,028
Can "Boeing’s completion of the flight control system enhancements...no later than April 2019" be done w/o rotating MAXs out of service?
It's been 2 months since the CVR was recovered from Lion Air. Can't findings be revealed on a priority basis, or do we need to wait a customary year?
It's been 2 months since the CVR was recovered from Lion Air. Can't findings be revealed on a priority basis, or do we need to wait a customary year?
Meanwhile, the UK is the latest country to ground them/ban them from its airspace...
Mar 12, 2019, 8:22 am
#179
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,879
Mar 12, 2019, 9:45 am
#180
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,331
The typical NTSB investigation commonly lasts 12-18 months, but with respect to the Lion Air (and now Ethiopian) accidents, NTSB is not the lead agency. As such, they are only providing assistance under ICAO protocol to the agency conducting the investigation in the country of the accident, and it's that agency that's in control. Accordingly, it could be more that the usual 12-18 months before a full investigation is completed and a final report of probable cause issued. Given the apparent similarities between the two accidents (new aircraft, phase of flight involved), I dare say the relevant answers will be available well in advance of any official report release.
Meanwhile, the UK is the latest country to ground them/ban them from its airspace...
Meanwhile, the UK is the latest country to ground them/ban them from its airspace...