Southwest uses the same new Boeing plane in Indonesia crash
#151
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cockeysville, MD
Programs: Marriott Rewards Lifetime Titanium, Amex Plat, Hertz Gold 5*, National Exec, AA Plat
Posts: 9,463
There is also a big discussion on the AA forum about this. Many are debating whether they'd fly on the Max now. My concern is that the second crash-seemingly caused by the same thing-was after pilots would have been briefed and trained on the issue. Ethiopian is certified to fly to the US. I cannot imagine them skipping this important update. Yet they couldn't make the necessary corrections. There are a lot of assumptions there, but I am avoiding the Max for a while. An engineer wrote the post below. I think its worth reading:
"Since its introduction in 2017, the MAX has now established a fatality rate that is at least 1,000 times higher than the 737NG and A320ceo/neo over the same period. It has two 100% fatal hull losses in less than 300 aircraft-years of operation. For context, the DC-10, which is widely regarded to have suffered serious safety flaws in the initial design, still made it over 1,600 aircraft-years of operation before its second 100% fatal hull loss. Something is wrong with the MAX."
"Since its introduction in 2017, the MAX has now established a fatality rate that is at least 1,000 times higher than the 737NG and A320ceo/neo over the same period. It has two 100% fatal hull losses in less than 300 aircraft-years of operation. For context, the DC-10, which is widely regarded to have suffered serious safety flaws in the initial design, still made it over 1,600 aircraft-years of operation before its second 100% fatal hull loss. Something is wrong with the MAX."
#152
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: STL
Programs: Southwest A+/CP, Hilton Diamond, National Executive Elite
Posts: 170
None of currently scheduled Southwest Hawaii flights from OAK, SJC, or interisland are max. they all show 737-800 on the schedule.
Thus far 102 737-MAX (out of a reported 350 delivered) are currently grounded by regulators or voluntarily)
96 in China (list from @juliuswong on airliners.net), 4 in Ethiopia, and 2 in Grand Cayman.
100% of the 737maxes in each of the following fleets:
Ethiopian - 4
Grand Cayman - 2
Joy Air- 1
Air China- 15
Fuzhou Airlines- 2
China Southern- 24
China Eastern- 3
Kunming- 2
Lucky Air- 3
Hainan Airlines- 11
Okay Airways- 2
Shandong Airlines- 7
Shanghai Airlines- 11
Shenzhen Airlines- 5
Xiamen Airlines- 10
Come on Southwest--do the right thing.
Thus far 102 737-MAX (out of a reported 350 delivered) are currently grounded by regulators or voluntarily)
96 in China (list from @juliuswong on airliners.net), 4 in Ethiopia, and 2 in Grand Cayman.
100% of the 737maxes in each of the following fleets:
Ethiopian - 4
Grand Cayman - 2
Joy Air- 1
Air China- 15
Fuzhou Airlines- 2
China Southern- 24
China Eastern- 3
Kunming- 2
Lucky Air- 3
Hainan Airlines- 11
Okay Airways- 2
Shandong Airlines- 7
Shanghai Airlines- 11
Shenzhen Airlines- 5
Xiamen Airlines- 10
Come on Southwest--do the right thing.
Not saying I disagree with them being grounded, but let's not stick our heads in the sand and act like this is purely on SW in North America.
Last edited by aaronp84; Mar 11, 2019 at 8:26 am Reason: .
#153
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,868
As I noted much earlier in this threat, SW is NOT the only airline in NA flying this aircraft, and not entirely sure why everyone feels the need to brigade the SW forum to .... on them every day. Air Canada, American, Westjet, and United are all flying 737 MAX jets, not sure I've seen any of you filling threads over there calling for their max jets to be grounded and for the airlines to do the right thing.
Not saying I disagree with them being grounded, but let's not stick our heads in the sand and act like this is purely on SW in North America.
Not saying I disagree with them being grounded, but let's not stick our heads in the sand and act like this is purely on SW in North America.
#154
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central US
Programs: WN CP, HHonors, Hyatt Platinum, IHG Premier,LaQuinta Elite, Amtrak
Posts: 442
I am a bit less concerned about the issue with UA, AC or AA because I do not regularly fly those carriers. I do regularly fly SW, so my attention is directed here. At the very minimum, SW should match United's offer of no penalty change for those who wish to avoid the 800MAX. Ideally, SW would do what it used to do best, step out ahead of the pack and announce a grounding of these planes until the investigation is complete and any remedial design or software upgrades are made. The good will and publicity accruing to SW from this move would be considerable, and would help polish an image that is becoming tarnished by issues related to the long simmering maintenance dispute. And, as others have noted, if SW instituted an arbitrary grounding of the plane, everyone else would follow suit.
#155
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LAX/SMF/PDX/HNL
Programs: Hilton-lifetime diamond, Southwest A+, companion pass
Posts: 1,731
Only 350 MAX8s have been delivered. Within a few months two have crashed, with what appears to be superficial commonalities.
Personally, I would not avoid travelling on the MAX, but I wouldn't be critical of somebody who does.
Personally, I would not avoid travelling on the MAX, but I wouldn't be critical of somebody who does.
Last edited by dlaue; Mar 11, 2019 at 11:34 am
#156
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL-Platinum
Posts: 147
Southwest refused to change my flight on the 737 MAX 8 and waive the fare difference. When I asked to speak with a supervisor, they told me I would receive a call back in 24-48 hours.
This is quite unacceptable and makes me not want to give Southwest future business.
This is quite unacceptable and makes me not want to give Southwest future business.
Last edited by gregman858; Mar 11, 2019 at 11:30 am
#157
Join Date: Oct 2015
Programs: SWA CP, UA MP, Hilton G, SPG G
Posts: 69
Southwest refused to change my flight on the 737 MAX 8 and waive the fare difference. When I asked to speak with a supervisor, they told me I would receive a call back in 24-48 hours.
This is quite unacceptable and makes me to not want to give Southwest future business.
This is quite unacceptable and makes me to not want to give Southwest future business.
#158
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL-Platinum
Posts: 147
Because I do not feel comfortable flying in a plane that has been involved in two major crashes the past 2 months. No investigation has been completed as of right now, so they should give customers the option to avoid that plane or receive a full refund.
#159
Join Date: Oct 2015
Programs: SWA CP, UA MP, Hilton G, SPG G
Posts: 69
so because you are afraid of flying a plane they should change it?
#160
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central US
Programs: WN CP, HHonors, Hyatt Platinum, IHG Premier,LaQuinta Elite, Amtrak
Posts: 442
In this case, with safety questions being asked by many, the "high road" would be to allow changes without penalty, as simply a goodwill gesture if nothing else. It seems that SWA is constantly moving further away from the corporate traditions that made them great, and that's a shame.
#161
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL-Platinum
Posts: 147
Yes.
I came on here to report what I have been told. Obviously, you disagree. However, trolling me about what I feel they should or should not do isn't the point of this forum. Both of these crashes have occurred on new jets and I (as many others probably do too) feel unsafe flying on this particular model.
I came on here to report what I have been told. Obviously, you disagree. However, trolling me about what I feel they should or should not do isn't the point of this forum. Both of these crashes have occurred on new jets and I (as many others probably do too) feel unsafe flying on this particular model.
#162
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,868
#163
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: IAH
Programs: UA Silver
Posts: 526
Wow, I can't believe the hostility shown to anyone who would dare suggest even the remote possiblity the 2 crashes could have something in common and it might implicate...EGADS...the newest 737. Especially since every news organization in the US is doing the exact same thing. Do the haters all own Boeing stock? Which, by the way, took a dive after the crash.
#164
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
As I noted much earlier in this threat, SW is NOT the only airline in NA flying this aircraft, and not entirely sure why everyone feels the need to brigade the SW forum to .... on them every day. Air Canada, American, Westjet, and United are all flying 737 MAX jets, not sure I've seen any of you filling threads over there calling for their max jets to be grounded and for the airlines to do the right thing.
Not saying I disagree with them being grounded, but let's not stick our heads in the sand and act like this is purely on SW in North America.
Not saying I disagree with them being grounded, but let's not stick our heads in the sand and act like this is purely on SW in North America.
It would appear however that Southwest has no plans to ground their MAX aircraft voluntarily. Given the ongoing issues caused by the labor disagreementwith their mechanics union already causing an abnormally high number of planes to be grounded everyday, this should surprise no one.
Southwest and American airlines, the biggest U.S. operators of the Boeing 737 Max 8, say they stand by the new plane despite two fatal crashes in less than five months.
#165
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 921
So when you fly with another airline, notice you need to change your reservation and will charge you $200 just to change a flight that originally cost $175, are you going to tell them you're not going to give them future business and switch back to Southwest?