Southwest uses the same new Boeing plane in Indonesia crash
Mar 10, 2019, 10:44 pm
#136
Join Date: Oct 2015
Programs: SWA CP, UA MP, Hilton G, SPG G
Posts: 69
We know a problem exists based on Lionair. Boeing delayed the software 'fix'. Seems very prudent to not fly them until the fix is available. Once customers start doing this it puts much needed pressure on Boeing.
Should we expect Southwest's pilots to know the right process in the meantime? sure. But are Southwest's pilots THAT much better than an overseas star alliance pilot who had thousands of hours experience on type? Doubtful.
Is there a chance Southwest pilots will follow the emergency directive in good weather clear skies like in Ethiopia or Indonesia? I'd like to think so.
BUT how will they perform on their 1st leg of the day if hungover, or 7th leg of the day if drowsy? What about taking off in horrible weather, blackout or IFR conditions? Are they still THAT much better than foreign pilots? I have to think not.
Should we expect Southwest's pilots to know the right process in the meantime? sure. But are Southwest's pilots THAT much better than an overseas star alliance pilot who had thousands of hours experience on type? Doubtful.
Is there a chance Southwest pilots will follow the emergency directive in good weather clear skies like in Ethiopia or Indonesia? I'd like to think so.
BUT how will they perform on their 1st leg of the day if hungover, or 7th leg of the day if drowsy? What about taking off in horrible weather, blackout or IFR conditions? Are they still THAT much better than foreign pilots? I have to think not.
YES, AMERICAN AIRLINE PILOTS (in general) ARE THAT MUCH BETTER.
the first officer on the Ethiopian Flight is reported to have 200 hours.
most guys that get hired at Southwest have THOUSANDS. EVERY First Officer at American. United. Delta, and Southwest has THOUSANDS before they can even INTERVIEW.
secondly their Captain has 8 thousand hours. EVERY CAPTAIN AT SOUTHWEST HAS MORE THAN 8000 hours!
American Pilots come from about a 50/50 mixture of civilian and military backgrounds.
US Aviaiton LEADS THE WORLD in training and standardization
Mar 10, 2019, 10:45 pm
#137
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: California
Posts: 1,127
Oh please, with China, it's more political than anything. Pretty sure ARJ21s could start falling out of the sky on a daily basis and the government wouldn't ground them.
Nobody, especially the USA, gets a free pass that decisions aren't political just like China's decision was probably political.
The bottom line, beyond US political concerns, is that I'm no longer interested in flying the B737-max given what has happened.
Mar 10, 2019, 10:51 pm
#138
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,870
YES, AMERICAN AIRLINE PILOTS (in general) ARE THAT MUCH BETTER.
the first officer on the Ethiopian Flight is reported to have 200 hours.
most guys that get hired at Southwest have THOUSANDS. EVERY First Officer at American. United. Delta, and Southwest has THOUSANDS before they can even INTERVIEW.
secondly their Captain has 8 thousand hours. EVERY CAPTAIN AT SOUTHWEST HAS MORE THAN 8000 hours!
American Pilots come from about a 50/50 mixture of civilian and military backgrounds.
US Aviaiton LEADS THE WORLD in training and standardization
Mar 10, 2019, 10:56 pm
#139
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,870
Hmm..not exactly shocking that the WN homer named after the subject aircraft who posts here has been silent on this issue. Would be interesting to hear that perspective, to say the least. All of a sudden, adjustable headrest wings don’t seem to be quite as important.
Mar 10, 2019, 11:44 pm
#142
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
“Our heart goes out to the families and loved ones of the passengers and Employees on Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. As Southwest operates a fleet of 31 Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft (as of Dec. 31, 2018), we have been in contact with Boeing and will continue to stay close to the investigation as it progresses. We remain confident in the safety and airworthiness of our fleet of more than 750 Boeing aircraft."
Airlines monitoring investigation into second 737-MAX crash in six months
Southwest & American Airlines issue statements
Mar 10, 2019, 11:56 pm
#143
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: DCA
Programs: DL DM 2 MM, Lifetime Marriott Titanium, UA Silver
Posts: 86
Some misstateme
YES, AMERICAN AIRLINE PILOTS (in general) ARE THAT MUCH BETTER.
the first officer on the Ethiopian Flight is reported to have 200 hours.
most guys that get hired at Southwest have THOUSANDS. EVERY First Officer at American. United. Delta, and Southwest has THOUSANDS before they can even INTERVIEW.
secondly their Captain has 8 thousand hours. EVERY CAPTAIN AT SOUTHWEST HAS MORE THAN 8000 hours!
American Pilots come from about a 50/50 mixture of civilian and military backgrounds.
US Aviaiton LEADS THE WORLD in training and standardization
Last edited by baqnav; Mar 11, 2019 at 12:04 am
Mar 11, 2019, 12:06 am
#144
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Programs: AC SE100K, F9 100k, NK Gold, UA *S, Hyatt Glob, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 5,191
I have found this to be accurate on 95% of my flights
Mar 11, 2019, 12:23 am
#145
Join Date: Oct 2015
Programs: SWA CP, UA MP, Hilton G, SPG G
Posts: 69
[RIGHT]
EVERY (as you say) captain at WN do not have those qualifications (hours). However, they are fully qualified. And 50/50 miltary is misleading. I AM a retired USAF pilot and most airline pilots are not from a military background. Only one percent of Americans have served. They are just as safe as I am.
EVERY (as you say) captain at WN do not have those qualifications (hours). However, they are fully qualified. And 50/50 miltary is misleading. I AM a retired USAF pilot and most airline pilots are not from a military background. Only one percent of Americans have served. They are just as safe as I am.
Every Captain at Southwest has been on property for a minimum of ten years -as a matter of fact the most junior captain has been there since 2008, that’s 11 years JUST at Southwest. At the time of hiring, Southwest required you to have a minimum of 1000 Multi Engine turbine PIC-that’s one thousand hours of captain time in a multi engine turbo prop or jet aircraft. You also had to have an ATP (a minimum of 1500 flight hours). Most civilian newhires at Southwest have over 5000 hours-before they even work a day st Southwest-many even have 8-10k hours before they even interview. Most military pilots have 1500-3500 hours before they even interview.
So yeah, I’d guaranty that every (non management) southwest captain has over 8000 hours.
Also an Air Force Pilot, following the industry closely and going to job fairs.
Last edited by Ditka; Mar 11, 2019 at 1:05 am
Mar 11, 2019, 1:41 am
#148
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Programs: AC SE100K, F9 100k, NK Gold, UA *S, Hyatt Glob, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 5,191
Thus far 102 737-MAX (out of a reported 350 delivered) are currently grounded by regulators or voluntarily)
96 in China (list from @juliuswong on airliners.net), 4 in Ethiopia, and 2 in Grand Cayman.
100% of the 737maxes in each of the following fleets:
Ethiopian - 4
Grand Cayman - 2
Joy Air- 1
Air China- 15
Fuzhou Airlines- 2
China Southern- 24
China Eastern- 3
Kunming- 2
Lucky Air- 3
Hainan Airlines- 11
Okay Airways- 2
Shandong Airlines- 7
Shanghai Airlines- 11
Shenzhen Airlines- 5
Xiamen Airlines- 10
Come on Southwest--do the right thing.
Mar 11, 2019, 2:21 am
#149
Join Date: Oct 2015
Programs: SWA CP, UA MP, Hilton G, SPG G
Posts: 69
None of currently scheduled Southwest Hawaii flights from OAK, SJC, or interisland are max. they all show 737-800 on the schedule.
Thus far 102 737-MAX (out of a reported 350 delivered) are currently grounded by regulators or voluntarily)
96 in China (list from @juliuswong on airliners.net), 4 in Ethiopia, and 2 in Grand Cayman.
100% of the 737maxes in each of the following fleets:
Ethiopian - 4
Grand Cayman - 2
Joy Air- 1
Air China- 15
Fuzhou Airlines- 2
China Southern- 24
China Eastern- 3
Kunming- 2
Lucky Air- 3
Hainan Airlines- 11
Okay Airways- 2
Shandong Airlines- 7
Shanghai Airlines- 11
Shenzhen Airlines- 5
Xiamen Airlines- 10
Come on Southwest--do the right thing.
Thus far 102 737-MAX (out of a reported 350 delivered) are currently grounded by regulators or voluntarily)
96 in China (list from @juliuswong on airliners.net), 4 in Ethiopia, and 2 in Grand Cayman.
100% of the 737maxes in each of the following fleets:
Ethiopian - 4
Grand Cayman - 2
Joy Air- 1
Air China- 15
Fuzhou Airlines- 2
China Southern- 24
China Eastern- 3
Kunming- 2
Lucky Air- 3
Hainan Airlines- 11
Okay Airways- 2
Shandong Airlines- 7
Shanghai Airlines- 11
Shenzhen Airlines- 5
Xiamen Airlines- 10
Come on Southwest--do the right thing.
either that or this will turn into some political trade war BS rhetoric thing.
Mar 11, 2019, 2:26 am
#150
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
Ah, interesting. I thought I had read that they were using the MAX exclusively, but it does appear that it's 800 and MAX (assuming MAX is flying).
