Southwest uses the same new Boeing plane in Indonesia crash
May 17, 2019, 10:16 am
#376
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May 17, 2019, 10:39 am
#377
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Until October 1996 the FAA's explicit mission was to "promote (airline) industry development." After the ValuJet crash, Congress changed the mission from "promote" to "encourage," so that it appeared to emphasize the FAA's safety mission. A footnote in the legislation, however, explained that "Although we're changing the terminology from "promote" to "encourage," we do not intend to change the way we (the FAA) do business. This is a change for the public consumption, and we're not changing how we work at the FAA."
The FAA sees the airlines, not passengers, as its agency's clients.
The FAA sees the airlines, not passengers, as its agency's clients.
May 17, 2019, 2:45 pm
#378
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Until October 1996 the FAA's explicit mission was to "promote (airline) industry development." After the ValuJet crash, Congress changed the mission from "promote" to "encourage," so that it appeared to emphasize the FAA's safety mission. A footnote in the legislation, however, explained that "Although we're changing the terminology from "promote" to "encourage," we do not intend to change the way we (the FAA) do business. This is a change for the public consumption, and we're not changing how we work at the FAA."
May 17, 2019, 3:14 pm
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The source is former DOT Inspector General Mary Schiavo. The quoted excerpt (2010 PBS 'Frontline' transcript) is her description of the legislation, not its verbatim wording.
May 17, 2019, 3:21 pm
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May 17, 2019, 3:59 pm
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Flash back to yesterday, post #367 by ursine1. The link he copied leads to an extremely interesting article. By Bloomberg. But posted by ursine1 from Crain's Chicago Business.
Chicago.
ursine1, please comment, as to why you chose the Crain's posting? simply happenstance?
Given the information, style, tone and presentation, it seems to me that Boeing PR & Legal could not be any more transparent in their construction of this "article" for a thousand reasons apparent to anyone who reads it. Just my opinion.
With respect to the FAA seeing the airlines, and not the pax, as their (the FAA's) clients, the most relevant "statement" from Kelly is bolded. And I would love to see someone produce any quotes in this Bloomberg/Crains article in another media source +/- 24 hours of 14:54 zulu yesterday 190516.
----------------------“I’m not predicting, but I’m hopeful,” Southwest Chief Executive Officer Gary Kelly said Wednesday following the carrier’s annual shareholder meeting in Denver. “Is it possible? Absolutely.”The largest operator of the Max is banking on strong summer travel to help make up for lost sales and higher costs linked to the aircraft’s grounding, which began in March after the second deadly crash in five months. Boeing is finalizing changes to software implicated in both accidents, and the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration expects to receive the update as soon as next week.
Chicago.
ursine1, please comment, as to why you chose the Crain's posting? simply happenstance?
Given the information, style, tone and presentation, it seems to me that Boeing PR & Legal could not be any more transparent in their construction of this "article" for a thousand reasons apparent to anyone who reads it. Just my opinion.
With respect to the FAA seeing the airlines, and not the pax, as their (the FAA's) clients, the most relevant "statement" from Kelly is bolded. And I would love to see someone produce any quotes in this Bloomberg/Crains article in another media source +/- 24 hours of 14:54 zulu yesterday 190516.
----------------------
May 16, 2019 08:54 AM
Southwest CEO on 737 Max's return: 'I'm not predicting, but I'm hopeful'
Gary Kelly, chief of the airline that's tied all of its future growth to Boeing's grounded jet, says the aircraft’s return to the skies this summer is still within reach.
U.S. regulators will then begin a review that includes test flights and input from a technical advisory board. The FAA will host its counterparts from around the world to discuss the Max at a meeting May 23 in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Southwest last month removed the Max from schedules through August 5.It’s premature to specify what reimbursement Southwest will consider seeking from Boeing because of the grounding, Kelly said. The Dallas-based carrier, which has an all-737 fleet, has always flown only Boeing airplanes.Kelly said last month that there was no guarantee Southwest would remain an all-737 operator in “perpetuity,” adding that the airline “constantly” looks at aircraft from other manufacturers, including Airbus SE.“Obviously no one on the planet is happy about this situation, least of all us as an all-Boeing 737 customer,” he told shareholders. “All of our growth is in the 737 Max. They’ve made some mistakes, they’ve admitted to those mistakes and they need to be addressed. We’ll do what we need to do to protect our company and our shareholders.” (COMMENT: WHAT ABOUT YOUR EMPLOYEES & THE PAX, MR. CHAIRMAN??)Kelly said he would “love to” fly on Southwest’s first Max flight when the grounding ends. He said he was working with Boeing, regulators and other airlines to plan the return to service and discuss how to allay travelers’ potential fear of flying on the Max.'CONFIDENCE LEVEL'
“We will do everything we feel like we need to do to instill confidence not only in the airplane, but in Southwest Airlines,” he said, describing an effort that will include training and involve employees. “Our confidence level will be high or we won’t fly the airplane.”Parking the planes in the California desert forced Southwest to cancel about 130 flights a day until about mid-April, when it removed the Max from schedules through early August. The grounding is also cramping the airline’s growth this year and slowed its expansion of service to Hawaii.
SOUTHWEST TRAININGSouthwest pilots already train for faulty sensor data and vertical-stabilizer movements that weren’t commanded -- both of which were issues faced by aviators in the Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines crashes.In those accidents, erroneous readings from a single sensor triggered software known as MCAS, which pushed down the nose of each aircraft until pilots lost control. The disasters killed 346 people.Training at Southwest “is already very comprehensive,” Kelly said. “We don’t know what training is like for Lion Air pilots or Ethiopian pilots. We have no way of knowing how well prepared they are.”Southwest and its pilots union have received subpoenas in a federal grand jury investigation into the Max, as have aviator groups at United Continental Holdings Inc. and American Airlines Group Inc.
Southwest rose less than 1% to $52.01 at the close in New York. The shares have climbed 12% this year, the biggest gain on a Standard & Poor’s index of the five largest U.S. carriers.
“We will do everything we feel like we need to do to instill confidence not only in the airplane, but in Southwest Airlines,” he said, describing an effort that will include training and involve employees. “Our confidence level will be high or we won’t fly the airplane.”Parking the planes in the California desert forced Southwest to cancel about 130 flights a day until about mid-April, when it removed the Max from schedules through early August. The grounding is also cramping the airline’s growth this year and slowed its expansion of service to Hawaii.
SOUTHWEST TRAININGSouthwest pilots already train for faulty sensor data and vertical-stabilizer movements that weren’t commanded -- both of which were issues faced by aviators in the Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines crashes.In those accidents, erroneous readings from a single sensor triggered software known as MCAS, which pushed down the nose of each aircraft until pilots lost control. The disasters killed 346 people.Training at Southwest “is already very comprehensive,” Kelly said. “We don’t know what training is like for Lion Air pilots or Ethiopian pilots. We have no way of knowing how well prepared they are.”Southwest and its pilots union have received subpoenas in a federal grand jury investigation into the Max, as have aviator groups at United Continental Holdings Inc. and American Airlines Group Inc.
May 17, 2019, 4:41 pm
#382
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Thanks. Dlaue is presenting it as if it were fact, not a quote from a person. I had doubted that a) the "mission" of the FAA were anywhere except on the home page of faa.gov (certainly not embedded in legislation); and b) that legislation would have "footnotes" such as this. It may very well be that the FAA has not fully embraced the mandate change from 1996, but to present it with fake news doesn't help things at all.
May 17, 2019, 5:19 pm
#383
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Flash back to yesterday, post #367 by ursine1. The link he copied leads to an extremely interesting article. By Bloomberg. But posted by ursine1 from Crain's Chicago Business.
Chicago.
ursine1, please comment, as to why you chose the Crain's posting? simply happenstance?
Chicago.
ursine1, please comment, as to why you chose the Crain's posting? simply happenstance?
I posted a link to the article from where I saw the article.
I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're trying to deconstruct here. it's pretty obvious what Boeing is trying to do with these statements, and what certain news agencies may be helping them with.
What is your point?
Last edited by ursine1; Jun 4, 2019 at 12:55 am Reason: Added quote from referenced post
May 18, 2019, 2:14 pm
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In case anyone thinks the FAA will willingly affect meaningful change, and/or admit guilt in the situation, just look at the acting director's comments.
F.A.A. Chief Defends Boeing Certification Process at House Hearing
F.A.A. Chief Defends Boeing Certification Process at House Hearing
The acting head of the Federal Aviation Administration defended the agency’s certification procedures involving the now-grounded Boeing 737 Max airplane, telling the House Transportation Committee on Wednesday that the process by which company-paid employees inspected their own aircraft was “a good system.”
...
He also suggested throughout the hearing that the inexperience and actions by the flight crews in both accidents might have contributed to the crashes.
...
Mr. Elwell expressed concern that the criticism of the F.A.A.’s actions was having a negative impact on the agency.
“I’m a little bit worried about morale right now across the F.A.A.,” Mr. Elwell said.
...
He also suggested throughout the hearing that the inexperience and actions by the flight crews in both accidents might have contributed to the crashes.
...
Mr. Elwell expressed concern that the criticism of the F.A.A.’s actions was having a negative impact on the agency.
“I’m a little bit worried about morale right now across the F.A.A.,” Mr. Elwell said.
May 22, 2019, 11:49 pm
#386
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The Dog and Pony Show brought to you by FAABoeing begins Thursday in TX.
FAA to bring international regulators together to talk about clearing Boeing 737 Max for flight
FAA to bring international regulators together to talk about clearing Boeing 737 Max for flight
The Federal Aviation Administration is gathering dozens of the world’s top aviation officials in Fort Worth for a day-long conclave Thursday to talk about the Boeing 737 Max, but several of those officials say they won’t commit to clearing the troubled jet to resume flights until their own safety questions are answered.
May 23, 2019, 3:15 pm
#387
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If it really was a bird strike on the second crash, that suggests to me that perhaps the bird hit this sensor that tells if the plane is nose up, level or nose down? If so, it seems to me that a well trained pilot would know how to turn off the auto-pilot and fly it manually. I wonder if foreign carriers with less training are not well equipped to do that? Perhaps they can get the plane back to level, when they turn the auto-pilot back on, only to have it then put it in a nose dive again.
It is my belief that a Southwest pilot (and probably an American Airlines pilot too) could turn off the auto-pilot and return the plane to the airport manually.
It is my belief that a Southwest pilot (and probably an American Airlines pilot too) could turn off the auto-pilot and return the plane to the airport manually.
May 23, 2019, 7:06 pm
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May 24, 2019, 9:22 pm
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If it really was a bird strike on the second crash, that suggests to me that perhaps the bird hit this sensor that tells if the plane is nose up, level or nose down? If so, it seems to me that a well trained pilot would know how to turn off the auto-pilot and fly it manually. I wonder if foreign carriers with less training are not well equipped to do that? Perhaps they can get the plane back to level, when they turn the auto-pilot back on, only to have it then put it in a nose dive again.
It is my belief that a Southwest pilot (and probably an American Airlines pilot too) could turn off the auto-pilot and return the plane to the airport manually.
It is my belief that a Southwest pilot (and probably an American Airlines pilot too) could turn off the auto-pilot and return the plane to the airport manually.
You really need to read some more about what actually happens when MCAS is triggered. I'd suggest you start with any of the dozens of links posted earlier in this thread.
May 24, 2019, 10:26 pm
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Turning off the autopilot would not have disabled the extreme nose down force of MCAS. Lowering flaps would have, but Boeing kept that a secret.