Southwest uses the same new Boeing plane in Indonesia crash
Apr 18, 2019, 3:52 pm
#316
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
If Southwest does not follow suit, I will mail Gary Kelly my families cut up A-List and companion pass cards.
I am going to reach out to Southwest on social media and more importantly the press! Everyone who feels the same should do so as well.
This is strictly a cost saving measure. Keep in mind the world regulators have voiced their opinion that the FAA's directives such as being the last agency to ground the MAX (and letting Boeing self certify) are inadequate.
I applaud AA for doing this. Is it too much to ask that the pilots flying me and my family have completed training and MCAS scenarios on an honest to goodness MAX simulator?
It is important to note that AA was also the first (only) airline to buy the $80,000 AOA sensor digital display option before the crash/crashes. Southwest only did so afterwards.
I am going to reach out to Southwest on social media and more importantly the press! Everyone who feels the same should do so as well.
This is strictly a cost saving measure. Keep in mind the world regulators have voiced their opinion that the FAA's directives such as being the last agency to ground the MAX (and letting Boeing self certify) are inadequate.
I applaud AA for doing this. Is it too much to ask that the pilots flying me and my family have completed training and MCAS scenarios on an honest to goodness MAX simulator?
It is important to note that AA was also the first (only) airline to buy the $80,000 AOA sensor digital display option before the crash/crashes. Southwest only did so afterwards.
Apr 18, 2019, 4:45 pm
#317
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: WN F9 HA UA AA IHG HH MR
Posts: 3,305
Apr 18, 2019, 4:48 pm
#318
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,502
I fail to see what simulator training will actually do since the simulators are programed to fly as the planes are supposed to fly, not necessarily as they actually do. I wonder if the MCAS was ever triggered in a simulator in the same way it was in the accidents and other incidents that have been reported. If the simulator doesn't reliably repeat the action of the MCAS there is something wrong with the simulator.
Apr 18, 2019, 5:55 pm
#319
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
How the Boeing 737 Max Disaster Looks to a Software Developer
Long but fascinating article by a pilot and software engineer that highlights the multiple failures in creation of the 737MAX.
Long but fascinating article by a pilot and software engineer that highlights the multiple failures in creation of the 737MAX.
So Boeing produced a dynamically unstable airframe, the 737 Max. That is big strike No. 1. Boeing then tried to mask the 737’s dynamic instability with a software system. Big strike No. 2. Finally, the software relied on systems known for their propensity to fail (angle-of-attack indicators) and did not appear to include even rudimentary provisions to cross-check the outputs of the angle-of-attack sensor against other sensors, or even the other angle-of-attack sensor. Big strike No. 3.
None of the above should have passed muster. None of the above should have passed the “OK” pencil of the most junior engineering staff, much less a DER.
That’s not a big strike. That’s a political, social, economic, and technical sin.
None of the above should have passed muster. None of the above should have passed the “OK” pencil of the most junior engineering staff, much less a DER.
That’s not a big strike. That’s a political, social, economic, and technical sin.
Apr 20, 2019, 10:58 am
#320
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MCI
Programs: CBP Global Entry, WN A-List Preferred, WN Companion Pass
Posts: 2,007
Apr 20, 2019, 3:48 pm
#321
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
Everything's fine, stay the course.
Southwest has 'no plans' to alter orders for hundreds more Boeing 737 Max aircraft
Southwest has 'no plans' to alter orders for hundreds more Boeing 737 Max aircraft
Apr 20, 2019, 5:17 pm
#322
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,505
Everything's fine, stay the course.
Southwest has 'no plans' to alter orders for hundreds more Boeing 737 Max aircraft
Southwest has 'no plans' to alter orders for hundreds more Boeing 737 Max aircraft
Apr 20, 2019, 5:43 pm
#323
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,502
The only realistic option he has.
It's a good guess that a multinational group of regulators will need to sign off on the MAX 8's return. The FAA has little in-house ability to determine if a particular airplane’s design is safe. 346 people are dead. Boeing avoided having to internalize the cost of much larger engines. If the MAX is a dynamically unstable airframe, adding complexity isn't the answer.
It's a good guess that a multinational group of regulators will need to sign off on the MAX 8's return. The FAA has little in-house ability to determine if a particular airplane’s design is safe. 346 people are dead. Boeing avoided having to internalize the cost of much larger engines. If the MAX is a dynamically unstable airframe, adding complexity isn't the answer.
Apr 21, 2019, 2:44 am
#324
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,866
The only realistic option he has.
It's a good guess that a multinational group of regulators will need to sign off on the MAX 8's return. The FAA has little in-house ability to determine if a particular airplane’s design is safe. 346 people are dead. Boeing avoided having to internalize the cost of much larger engines. If the MAX is a dynamically unstable airframe, adding complexity isn't the answer.
It's a good guess that a multinational group of regulators will need to sign off on the MAX 8's return. The FAA has little in-house ability to determine if a particular airplane’s design is safe. 346 people are dead. Boeing avoided having to internalize the cost of much larger engines. If the MAX is a dynamically unstable airframe, adding complexity isn't the answer.
Apr 21, 2019, 8:00 am
#325
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: WN F9 HA UA AA IHG HH MR
Posts: 3,305
After the current round of litigation, perhaps they may return to complying with the laws of physics.
Apr 21, 2019, 8:08 am
#326
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
Do you think (as examples) Canada, China, or Australia have more capability?
Apr 21, 2019, 8:38 am
#327
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: PVD, BOS
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,664
Additionally, Boeing’s ability to self-certify anything should be illegal. At least regulatory bodies in other countries will be less susceptible to political interference from Boeing. Chinese regulators in particular typically have a reputation as being very conservative.
Apr 21, 2019, 8:39 am
#328
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,502
I think consensus - or the appearance of consensus - is the means to restore public confidence. Uncompromised regulators...ones that weren't complicit in Boeing's self-audits of flying dynamics...should be consulted.
Apr 21, 2019, 12:05 pm
#329
Join Date: Oct 2001
Programs: LTP, PP
Posts: 8,698
How the Boeing 737 Max Disaster Looks to a Software Developer
Long but fascinating article by a pilot and software engineer that highlights the multiple failures in creation of the 737MAX.
Long but fascinating article by a pilot and software engineer that highlights the multiple failures in creation of the 737MAX.
Apr 28, 2019, 5:30 pm
#330
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
Boeing waited until after Lion Air crash to tell Southwest safety alert was turned off on 737 Max
Southwest said Boeing told the airline that the disagree lights were inoperable only after the Lion Air crash. The airline subsequently took action to turn the alerts on.