seat saving
Oct 20, 2018, 8:48 am
#181
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,509
It means maintaining the "contrarian" image masks all shortcomings. 15 million show up every day.
WiFi can suck until we're blue in the face.
Oct 20, 2018, 1:39 pm
#183
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Gold, WN A+ & CP, HH Diamond, Hyatt Platinum, National Executive Elite
Posts: 3,246
Oct 21, 2018, 6:57 pm
#184
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,770
You've done a marvelous job of describing how to calculate a percentage. That's not probability theory. You could turn this into a probability problem but the sample size isn't really large enough. And even then, what you would end up with is a probability number that someone wants a seat that someone is saving. What you won't have is whether they are affected by it or not. Your explanation has a built in bias that everyone dislikes seat saving and that they care about it. You have no way of knowing that. So congrats if you can figure out the true probability of someone wanting a seat that is saved. That number, somewhere between 0 and 1, and $0.99 will get you a big gulp at Circle K.
When you have
n passengers being shooed away
out of m passengers who board after you but before your companion, then the probability that any one passenger gets screwed over by your selfish actions is n/m.
There is simply no way you can argue away this simple and undeniable FACT.
I wrote it this way because the seat saving defenders say "well some people don't want to sit in your saved seat", which is true, and that is why I said n passengers out of m total. No, it's not 100% (unless every single person wants to sit there, which I realize doesn't happen). But to claim it's zero is also not realistic. Exactly what it is we don't know. To quantify n and m we would have to do a survey. But it is NOT ZERO.
Seat saving is cutting the line. If someone cuts in front of you but sits somewhere where you didn't want to, fine. But if someone cuts the line and does sit somewhere where you want to, that is a problem. It certainly doesn't benefit anyone that you cut in front of. It's a selfish thing to do.
I have had enough of this topic because no matter how many times I try to explain it, even with the math above, you people still refuse to believe that seat saving is line cutting. Fine, be that way. I give up!
Seat saving is LINE CUTTING PERIOD, END OF STORY.
Oct 21, 2018, 9:59 pm
#185
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: USA
Programs: AA Exp
Posts: 519
Real world example. Saturday night We flew. I has A-23 they had A-33. I took my favorite row nine no window seat, because I like to sleep. They showed up 10 people max behind me and sat in the middle I was saving. Then my no one even noticed. They she moved to the aisle and no one sat between us.
This is is a word problem. How many people were affected?
A.) 1
B.) 100
C.) none
D.) none of the above
This is is a word problem. How many people were affected?
A.) 1
B.) 100
C.) none
D.) none of the above
Oct 22, 2018, 12:40 am
#186
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Gold, WN A+ & CP, HH Diamond, Hyatt Platinum, National Executive Elite
Posts: 3,246
How about this. Let's say i agree with everything you've said about probability, etc, etc. So seat saving is line cutting. So what? WN allows it (seat saving) so I'm not doing anything that I'm not entitled to do. I'm not using more seats than I've paid for. I'm not asking WN to fly me for free. It's not my responsibility took make sure other customers feel like they got good value for their money. I'm polite, understanding, and agreeable. If someone wants the seat I'm saving, they can have it, more power to them.
If someone feels like they can't ask me to move my jacket or tell me that they'd like to sit there, well that's their hang up, not mine. I'm not saving bulkhead or exit rows. I'm not being greedy. I'm not being selfish. And more importantly, I'm not being judgemental about anyone as long as they are following the rules.
Some seat savers will, no doubt, be rude and inconsiderate. But you know what, some non-savers will also be rude and inconsiderate when they block the aisle and take their sweet-a$$ time to sit down or get off the plane. Or when they keep grabbing the seat back in front of them when they get up or sit down, etc,etc. So it takes all sorts to make a world. So what? It's really not worth worrying about.
If someone feels like they can't ask me to move my jacket or tell me that they'd like to sit there, well that's their hang up, not mine. I'm not saving bulkhead or exit rows. I'm not being greedy. I'm not being selfish. And more importantly, I'm not being judgemental about anyone as long as they are following the rules.
Some seat savers will, no doubt, be rude and inconsiderate. But you know what, some non-savers will also be rude and inconsiderate when they block the aisle and take their sweet-a$$ time to sit down or get off the plane. Or when they keep grabbing the seat back in front of them when they get up or sit down, etc,etc. So it takes all sorts to make a world. So what? It's really not worth worrying about.
Oct 22, 2018, 6:47 am
#187
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 206
I agree. Seat-savers, IMHO, are stealing and Southwest does not care.
My solution, for almost three years, has been to NOT fly Southwest. However, to get a non-stop at my strongly preferred time and avoid an additional night in a hotel, I did book a flight on Southwest for Dec 6th. I paid for EBCI for both of us. We prefer the LUV seat; if not available, we'll just both take aisle seats toward the front of plane. We'll survive, but Southwest continues to be our last choice due to lack of seat assignments, cattle-call boarding and seat-saving scum. This is simply my opinion based on my preferences and experiences. Others are welcome to do what works for them.
My solution, for almost three years, has been to NOT fly Southwest. However, to get a non-stop at my strongly preferred time and avoid an additional night in a hotel, I did book a flight on Southwest for Dec 6th. I paid for EBCI for both of us. We prefer the LUV seat; if not available, we'll just both take aisle seats toward the front of plane. We'll survive, but Southwest continues to be our last choice due to lack of seat assignments, cattle-call boarding and seat-saving scum. This is simply my opinion based on my preferences and experiences. Others are welcome to do what works for them.
Oct 22, 2018, 5:12 pm
#188
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,808
Not everyone cares that some seats are saved. So each flight is going to generally be different in terms of how many people are truly affected by any seat saving. The people are the variables. As I said, to say unequivocally that a saved seat causes everyone behind to suffer a devaluation has too many variables to be true. Some people may suffer a devaluation but some may not.
Your mistake is suggesting that someone has to be aware of it to be affected. It does't work like that. You are impacted even if you are unaware of it.
Your BP drops back 1 position for each seat saved between you and the savee. Even if you don't know it does, it still impacts your BP position, removing one option. A person could be blissfully unaware of it, yet still had their available options drop.
Oct 22, 2018, 5:54 pm
#189
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: Rapid Rewards, AAdvantage, SkyMiles
Posts: 2,931
Real world example. Saturday night We flew. I has A-23 they had A-33. I took my favorite row nine no window seat, because I like to sleep. They showed up 10 people max behind me and sat in the middle I was saving. Then my no one even noticed. They she moved to the aisle and no one sat between us.
This is is a word problem. How many people were affected?
A.) 1
B.) 100
C.) none
D.) none of the above
This is is a word problem. How many people were affected?
A.) 1
B.) 100
C.) none
D.) none of the above
Oct 22, 2018, 5:59 pm
#190
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: none
Posts: 1,668
Your mistake is suggesting that someone has to be aware of it to be affected. It does't work like that. You are impacted even if you are unaware of it.
Your BP drops back 1 position for each seat saved between you and the savee. Even if you don't know it does, it still impacts your BP position, removing one option. A person could be blissfully unaware of it, yet still had their available options drop.
Your BP drops back 1 position for each seat saved between you and the savee. Even if you don't know it does, it still impacts your BP position, removing one option. A person could be blissfully unaware of it, yet still had their available options drop.
Sorry.
Oct 22, 2018, 8:39 pm
#192
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Gold, WN A+ & CP, HH Diamond, Hyatt Platinum, National Executive Elite
Posts: 3,246
I agree. Seat-savers, IMHO, are stealing and Southwest does not care.
My solution, for almost three years, has been to NOT fly Southwest. However, to get a non-stop at my strongly preferred time and avoid an additional night in a hotel, I did book a flight on Southwest for Dec 6th. I paid for EBCI for both of us. We prefer the LUV seat; if not available, we'll just both take aisle seats toward the front of plane. We'll survive, but Southwest continues to be our last choice due to lack of seat assignments, cattle-call boarding and seat-saving scum. This is simply my opinion based on my preferences and experiences. Others are welcome to do what works for them.
My solution, for almost three years, has been to NOT fly Southwest. However, to get a non-stop at my strongly preferred time and avoid an additional night in a hotel, I did book a flight on Southwest for Dec 6th. I paid for EBCI for both of us. We prefer the LUV seat; if not available, we'll just both take aisle seats toward the front of plane. We'll survive, but Southwest continues to be our last choice due to lack of seat assignments, cattle-call boarding and seat-saving scum. This is simply my opinion based on my preferences and experiences. Others are welcome to do what works for them.
Your mistake is suggesting that someone has to be aware of it to be affected. It does't work like that. You are impacted even if you are unaware of it.
Your BP drops back 1 position for each seat saved between you and the savee. Even if you don't know it does, it still impacts your BP position, removing one option. A person could be blissfully unaware of it, yet still had their available options drop.
Your BP drops back 1 position for each seat saved between you and the savee. Even if you don't know it does, it still impacts your BP position, removing one option. A person could be blissfully unaware of it, yet still had their available options drop.
The other thing is, and I again apologize if it wasn't you that said it, however it has also been stated that a seat isn't saved unless someone asks to sit in it. You can't have it both ways. If someone is impacted even if they are unaware of someone saving a seat, how can you also argue that a seat isn't saved unless someone asks to sit in it? In other words, according to what I've quoted, if I save a seat then I've affected other passengers even if they aren't aware that I've affected them. However if no one asks to sit there, your claim is that it wasn't saved. If it wasn't saved, then how can someone be affected by something that didn't happen? I think it's a stretch to claim that when someone doesn't do anything differently than what they would have done anyway, that they are somehow affected or impacted.
Oct 22, 2018, 9:12 pm
#193
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,604
Oct 23, 2018, 8:34 am
#194
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,808
No, it drops back 1 position no matter what seat you wanted, with your available options dropped by 1.
Oct 23, 2018, 8:36 am
#195
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,808
how can you also argue that a seat isn't saved unless someone asks to sit in it? In other words, according to what I've quoted, if I save a seat then I've affected other passengers even if they aren't aware that I've affected them. However if no one asks to sit there, your claim is that it wasn't saved. If it wasn't saved, then how can someone be affected by something that didn't happen? I think it's a stretch to claim that when someone doesn't do anything differently than what they would have done anyway, that they are somehow affected or impacted.