Finally! get rid of fake service dogs!
May 17, 2018, 3:46 pm
#61
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
Perhaps it could be something like a prescription. The Professional sends a certification under penalty of perjury to DOT automated system that issues a document to the person's cell, email, or fax. I often get prescriptions filled the same day by the Doctor sending it directly to the pharmacy of my choice.That would facilitate tracking Professionals who sign off on thousands of them. DOT could take action or refer the Professional to their licensing board Similar to the way insurers track benefits or DEA tracks narcotics. What we have now is basically an honor system that isn't working because when it was started no one envisioned the situation that developed.
May 17, 2018, 3:54 pm
#62
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
Understood.
Incorrect. Refer to page 9 and 10 of the Interim Statement: https://www.regulations.gov/document...2018-0067-0001
Incorrect. Refer to page 9 and 10 of the Interim Statement: https://www.regulations.gov/document...2018-0067-0001
When deciding to accept an animal as a service animal, airlines must determine both that the passenger is an individual with a disability and that the animal is a service animal. See 73 FR 27614, 27658. If a passenger’s status as an individual with a disability is unclear (for example, if the disability is not clearly visible), then the airline personnel may ask questions about the passenger’s need for a service animal. For example, airlines may ask “how does your animal assist you with your disability?” See 73 FR 27614, 27660. A credible response to this question would establish both that the passenger is an individual with a disability and that the animal is a service animal. While airlines are required to accept items such as vests and harnesses as evidence of a service animal’s status, it would be reasonable for airlines to also request the passenger’s credible verbal assurance to ensure the passenger is an individual with a disability who has a need for that service animal.
I also would appreciate stricter enforcement by airline personnel, but ultimately I think we're not best served by leaving it up to individual discretion. I think a better answer might be clearly defined documentation requirements and approval procedures.
In practice, how does "airlines are required to accept items such as vests and harnesses as evidence of a service animal’s status" coexist with "it would be reasonable for airlines to also request the passenger’s credible verbal assurance to ensure the passenger is an individual with a disability who has a need for that service animal"?
May 17, 2018, 3:59 pm
#63
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
Not the ADA. You threw the ADA in later. (Unless, by "federal statue" you meant "ADA." There we go again with the "imprecise language.")
May 17, 2018, 4:02 pm
#64
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,878
Assuming you refer to the following, I stand corrected.
When deciding to accept an animal as a service animal, airlines must determine both that the passenger is an individual with a disability and that the animal is a service animal. See 73 FR 27614, 27658. If a passenger’s status as an individual with a disability is unclear (for example, if the disability is not clearly visible), then the airline personnel may ask questions about the passenger’s need for a service animal. For example, airlines may ask “how does your animal assist you with your disability?” See 73 FR 27614, 27660. A credible response to this question would establish both that the passenger is an individual with a disability and that the animal is a service animal. While airlines are required to accept items such as vests and harnesses as evidence of a service animal’s status, it would be reasonable for airlines to also request the passenger’s credible verbal assurance to ensure the passenger is an individual with a disability who has a need for that service animal.
When deciding to accept an animal as a service animal, airlines must determine both that the passenger is an individual with a disability and that the animal is a service animal. See 73 FR 27614, 27658. If a passenger’s status as an individual with a disability is unclear (for example, if the disability is not clearly visible), then the airline personnel may ask questions about the passenger’s need for a service animal. For example, airlines may ask “how does your animal assist you with your disability?” See 73 FR 27614, 27660. A credible response to this question would establish both that the passenger is an individual with a disability and that the animal is a service animal. While airlines are required to accept items such as vests and harnesses as evidence of a service animal’s status, it would be reasonable for airlines to also request the passenger’s credible verbal assurance to ensure the passenger is an individual with a disability who has a need for that service animal.
Correct (for some reason I was unable to copy and paste from the PDF).
I also would appreciate stricter enforcement by airline personnel, but ultimately I think we're not best served by leaving it up to individual discretion. I think a better answer might be clearly defined documentation requirements and approval procedures.
May 17, 2018, 4:17 pm
#65
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,878
Well, it's been a fun discussion...be back later.
May 17, 2018, 7:33 pm
#66
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
In practice, how does "airlines are required to accept items such as vests and harnesses as evidence of a service animal’s status" coexist with "it would be reasonable for airlines to also request the passenger’s credible verbal assurance to ensure the passenger is an individual with a disability who has a need for that service animal"?
May 17, 2018, 7:53 pm
#67
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A carrier requiring the disclosure of a specific diagnosis would be a HIPPA violation.
Which is why they don't, and why it's not allowed under the ACAA.
There is no disclosure of a specific diagnosis.
The required forms have a check box. (This is Alaska's.)
Obviously our opinions differ.
I, personally, do not believe that Tiffany, who absolutely must travel with her teacup poodle Puddles or she'll just die! cares one way or the other that anyone knows she sees a mental health professional.
Which is why they don't, and why it's not allowed under the ACAA.
There is no disclosure of a specific diagnosis.
The required forms have a check box. (This is Alaska's.)
Obviously our opinions differ.
I, personally, do not believe that Tiffany, who absolutely must travel with her teacup poodle Puddles or she'll just die! cares one way or the other that anyone knows she sees a mental health professional.
Isn't there a required statement from the mental health professional that the patient needs an emotional support animal?
May 17, 2018, 9:17 pm
#68
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
This is not the act but it is how the government would evaluate a complaint. The airlines are literally in a no-win situation here. Deny someone who may be lying or allow someone they think is lying, with no way to determine what the truth is, The airline is going to err on the side of low reprucussions every time. Look at the publicity the Emotional Support Peacock got, and that was clearly a stunt.
Oh, understood. And agreed. That was my point, and that's why, I think, carriers are seeking more direction.
May 17, 2018, 10:04 pm
#69
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
The more I think about it the more I like my prescription approach.
There is literally no way a Gate Agent, Ticket Agent or Ops Agent can verify whether any letter from the Professional is authentic. It could be a forgery, it could be issued by someone who only claims to have the credentials, the Professional could have loaned their credentials to some third party, or the Professional's credentials could have been stolen. I'm also not sure how expansive the definition of the Professional is, perhaps that could be tightened somewhat to people who actually have a license in the United States to provide individual care.
If the prescription were run through a database first the Professionals's name and license number at least could be verified.
There is literally no way a Gate Agent, Ticket Agent or Ops Agent can verify whether any letter from the Professional is authentic. It could be a forgery, it could be issued by someone who only claims to have the credentials, the Professional could have loaned their credentials to some third party, or the Professional's credentials could have been stolen. I'm also not sure how expansive the definition of the Professional is, perhaps that could be tightened somewhat to people who actually have a license in the United States to provide individual care.
If the prescription were run through a database first the Professionals's name and license number at least could be verified.
Last edited by rsteinmetz70112; May 17, 2018 at 10:05 pm Reason: typo
May 17, 2018, 10:25 pm
#70
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
That applies to "service animals," yes. And it's unfortunate. ESAs can trigger documentation should the carrier require it (and the vast majority do).
Should documentation be required for all service animals? I'd say yes, but that actually makes it harder on those with legitimate service dogs, not ESAs, since carriers already require documentation for ESAs. But it could help reduce the number of fake "service animals."
Should documentation be required for all service animals? I'd say yes, but that actually makes it harder on those with legitimate service dogs, not ESAs, since carriers already require documentation for ESAs. But it could help reduce the number of fake "service animals."
Emotional Support Animals are a whole 'nother kettle of touchy-feely stuff. Is a "Life Coach" allowed to prescribe an Emotional Support Animal?
May 17, 2018, 10:32 pm
#71
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I think you took that the wrong way. I think the poster was being sarcastic in response to a poster who was suggesting that certain people should be forced to go to the back of the plane. It would be a violation of the current rules for an airline like WN to require people with service animals to sit at the back of the plane. Plus the poster who suggested it seems to think that people will weigh the decision of taking a service animal vs. sitting in the front of the plane and that they all have a choice. The reality is some people need both a service animal and a seat near the front of the plane, especially if they have difficulty walking, etc.
May 18, 2018, 12:32 pm
#73
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
There needs to be standardization. The process needs to be taken away from carrier's policy and regulated on a national level, in my opinion.
May 18, 2018, 12:39 pm
#74
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
Training Service Animals and their Owners is an expensive and complicated process. I can't imagine how it could be done without the involvement of an acknowledged Professional. I doubt many people with actual Service Animals are not under the regular care of a Physician for their disability.
Emotional Support Animals are a whole 'nother kettle of touchy-feely stuff. Is a "Life Coach" allowed to prescribe an Emotional Support Animal?
Emotional Support Animals are a whole 'nother kettle of touchy-feely stuff. Is a "Life Coach" allowed to prescribe an Emotional Support Animal?
Again, I think there needs to be standardization, and at the national level -- out of the hands of individual carriers.
Life coach's aren't licensed (although someone with a professional license can be a life coach), so in general, no.
May 18, 2018, 1:12 pm
#75
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
Agreed, essentially. But using current standards, this would mean that passengers with legitimate service animals would need to get a carrier-specific form completed by their doctor for each and every flight, as opposed to having a letter that provides blanket coverage for their travel needs.
Again, I think there needs to be standardization, and at the national level -- out of the hands of individual carriers.
Life coach's aren't licensed (although someone with a professional license can be a life coach), so in general, no.
Again, I think there needs to be standardization, and at the national level -- out of the hands of individual carriers.
Life coach's aren't licensed (although someone with a professional license can be a life coach), so in general, no.
You could (and I'm sure some do) also fake a Service Animal since many Service Animals perform functions that aren't immediately obvious, unlike a seeing eye dog.
The Life Coach thing was a joke.