DL's had enough of fake ESAs- let's hope WN is next!
Mar 10, 2018, 12:48 pm
#106
Formerly known as billinaz
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Goodyear,AZ for now then FL Spacecoast
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I've mentioned this multiple times already, but I'll restate again that the requirements, per law, can include professional certification of a mental disorder, but absolutely do not demand the disclosure of any specific mental disease. Which would, of course, be in violation of HIPPA privacy rules.
The DSM recognizes somewhere north of 450 distinct disorders, which include things like "anxiety disorder" (made up or not), claustrophobia, "denial," insomnia, erectile disfunction, "night eating syndrome," OCD, and stuttering.
The specific disorder would not be disclosed. People have been getting these kinds of diagnoses for years for purposes like obtaining prescription drugs (including, now, marijuana) and work leave-related legal issues, and some "professionals" already make these diagnoses online through questionnaires and virtual visits.
Getting a diagnosis letter is an extra hurdle, but, unfortunately I don't expect it will have all that much overall effect as a deterrent.
Edited to add:
AA's form does require the DSM-recognized condition -- not sure if the form was recently updated. United's current form requires it as well.
The DSM recognizes somewhere north of 450 distinct disorders, which include things like "anxiety disorder" (made up or not), claustrophobia, "denial," insomnia, erectile disfunction, "night eating syndrome," OCD, and stuttering.
The specific disorder would not be disclosed. People have been getting these kinds of diagnoses for years for purposes like obtaining prescription drugs (including, now, marijuana) and work leave-related legal issues, and some "professionals" already make these diagnoses online through questionnaires and virtual visits.
Getting a diagnosis letter is an extra hurdle, but, unfortunately I don't expect it will have all that much overall effect as a deterrent.
Edited to add:
AA's form does require the DSM-recognized condition -- not sure if the form was recently updated. United's current form requires it as well.
Problem solved. $99 and you have the letter. They dont even try to hide the fact they are doing it to bypass any requirements.......
https://www.emotionalpetsupport.com/...EaAgfVEALw_wcB
Mar 10, 2018, 12:50 pm
#107
Formerly known as billinaz
Join Date: Oct 2003
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DL's new form requires a certification of a DSM-recognized mental disease or defect, not merely some made up anxiety. UA says that it will publish a new form before its requirements come into effect. We'll have to see if the new form contains the requirement. AA does not currently require the DSM-recognized condition.The theory is that not many people will want a mental illness diagnosis when they do not have one and not many licensed professionals will make such a diagnosis without supporting evidence and a thorough exam.
They can come up with all the requirements they want. There will always be someone willing to circumvent those for a little cash.
https://www.emotionalpetsupport.com/...EaAgfVEALw_wcB
Mar 10, 2018, 2:59 pm
#108
Join Date: Oct 2005
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They can come up with all the requirements they want. There will always be someone willing to circumvent those for a little cash.
https://www.emotionalpetsupport.com/...EaAgfVEALw_wcB
https://www.emotionalpetsupport.com/...EaAgfVEALw_wcB
Mar 10, 2018, 4:29 pm
#109
Formerly known as billinaz
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Mar 10, 2018, 7:14 pm
#111
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They can come up with all the requirements they want. There will always be someone willing to circumvent those for a little cash.
https://www.emotionalpetsupport.com/...EaAgfVEALw_wcB
https://www.emotionalpetsupport.com/...EaAgfVEALw_wcB
In addition, you have to question the smarts of people who want written documents attributing a DSM-recognized mental disease or defect so that they can scam a carrier. The consequences of documents like that floating around can be pretty significant.
That's why in the pre-crackdown era, those fake letters just listed a bunch of junk. Now, they need a diagnosis.
Mar 11, 2018, 3:56 am
#113
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,286
There are no 100% solutions to anything. The goal is to reduce the fraud. Eliminating it is not in the cards.
In addition, you have to question the smarts of people who want written documents attributing a DSM-recognized mental disease or defect so that they can scam a carrier. The consequences of documents like that floating around can be pretty significant.
That's why in the pre-crackdown era, those fake letters just listed a bunch of junk. Now, they need a diagnosis.
In addition, you have to question the smarts of people who want written documents attributing a DSM-recognized mental disease or defect so that they can scam a carrier. The consequences of documents like that floating around can be pretty significant.
That's why in the pre-crackdown era, those fake letters just listed a bunch of junk. Now, they need a diagnosis.
To be clear. Again. As I've posted multiple times now, in multiple threads discussing this issue.
In no uncertain terms.
NO.
They do NOT require a diagnosis.
They require only a statement that a diagnosis has been made.
This seemingly elusive (to some) difference is very important.
Any suggested "stigma" connected with a diagnosis becomes irrelevant, when one considers that:
1) The specific diagnosis is never stated (primarily because to do so would be a HIPPA violation).
and
2) The vast range of DSM-identified disorders includes things as banal as "generalized anxiety," stuttering, "caffeine-induced sleep disorder," insomnia, and "restless leg syndrome," (among many, many others).
Mar 26, 2018, 10:20 am
#115
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 65
It's already a federal crime. The real reason we have this problem is they don't enforce it. Start prosecuting the fraud and it will fade away.
Mar 26, 2018, 10:26 am
#116
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 65
That is the solution. If you need extra time to get on because of a wheelchair or small children, then you also need extra time to get off and need to wait until everyone else gets off. The solution only hurts the abusers.
Mar 26, 2018, 12:56 pm
#117
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
Can you direct me to the actual statute? I went looking and couldn't find it, in fact I found a bunch of regulations which say you can't even ask much about a Service Animal.
Mar 26, 2018, 11:35 pm
#118
Join Date: May 2005
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And along those lines, we do wait until a few rows behind us have left because there's normally a natural break in the flow every few rows. So why should we just sit there for no reason other than to punish someone else who might have abused the preboard policy?
I can only speak for the person I know but they would gladly be the last person on and off the plane in exchange for having their health and not needing a
Do you need assistance walking? Do you need to preboard? If not perhaps spend a day in the shoes of someone who does before treating them like they are an inconvenience.
Mar 27, 2018, 9:41 am
#119
Join Date: Apr 2017
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No, it hurts many who genuinely need to preboard as well as demeaning them in the process. I sometimes travel with someone who needs a wheelchair to get from the car to the gate due to the distance. They need to preboard on WN because of the open seating otherwise they would probably need an aisle chair, which would hold up everyone even more. They can walk from the first few rows of the plane to the door of the plane albeit a little slower than most people. However I see people who didn't preboard take their sweet-a$$ time getting their bag out of the overhead and holding up the whole plane but i don't see you calling for those people to wait until the rest of the plane disembarks.
And along those lines, we do wait until a few rows behind us have left because there's normally a natural break in the flow every few rows. So why should we just sit there for no reason other than to punish someone else who might have abused the preboard policy?
I can only speak for the person I know but they would gladly be the last person on and off the plane in exchange for having their health and not needing a
Do you need assistance walking? Do you need to preboard? If not perhaps spend a day in the shoes of someone who does before treating them like they are an inconvenience.
And along those lines, we do wait until a few rows behind us have left because there's normally a natural break in the flow every few rows. So why should we just sit there for no reason other than to punish someone else who might have abused the preboard policy?
I can only speak for the person I know but they would gladly be the last person on and off the plane in exchange for having their health and not needing a
Do you need assistance walking? Do you need to preboard? If not perhaps spend a day in the shoes of someone who does before treating them like they are an inconvenience.
If you genuinely needed assistance during boarding then it is in no way, shape, or form demeaning to wait for assistance to deplane.
Edit:
And by the way, if open seating is an issue for your travel companion, why are you guys booking on WN? This smells like a scam to get the seats you want.
Mar 27, 2018, 11:01 am
#120
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,878
CHAPTER 12. Other Injuries to Persons [346 - 367g]
( Chapter 12 enacted 1872. )365.7.
(a) Any person who knowingly and fraudulently represents himself or herself, through verbal or written notice, to be the owner or trainer of any canine licensed as, to be qualified as, or identified as, a guide, signal, or service dog, as defined in subdivisions (d), (e), and (f) of Section 365.5 and paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) of Section 54.1 of the Civil Code, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six months, by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(b) As used in this section, “owner” means any person who owns a guide, signal, or service dog, or who is authorized by the owner to use the guide, signal, or service dog.
( Chapter 12 enacted 1872. )365.7.
(a) Any person who knowingly and fraudulently represents himself or herself, through verbal or written notice, to be the owner or trainer of any canine licensed as, to be qualified as, or identified as, a guide, signal, or service dog, as defined in subdivisions (d), (e), and (f) of Section 365.5 and paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) of Section 54.1 of the Civil Code, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six months, by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(b) As used in this section, “owner” means any person who owns a guide, signal, or service dog, or who is authorized by the owner to use the guide, signal, or service dog.