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Old Oct 13, 2017, 3:39 pm
  #76  
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Excerpts from the newspaper in Honolulu this morning:

Airline analyst Hunter Keay of New York-based Wolfe Research wrote in an Oct. 6 research note that using 30 prior Southwest route announcements and U.S. Department of Transportation data as a guide that he is guessing Southwest will launch six routes to Hawaii with once-daily service. His projected city pairings are Los Angeles, Oakland, San Diego and Phoenix to Honolulu and/or Maui. All six routes would overlap with Hawaiian Airlines, he wrote.

But Keay, speculating ahead of Southwest’s announcement, wrote that he doesn’t see Southwest succeeding in Hawaii because — among several things — it lacks the on-board products to compete in Hawaii against airlines that are larger and offer a full-service option for higher income Hawaii vacationers. He also said Southwest’s “bags fly free” policy could create turnaround time headaches since an estimated 68 percent of passengers to Hawaii check bags, and that there could be potential service problems if bags are lost. He also said there could be lots of passengers redeeming frequent flier points to travel to Hawaii, which could disrupt Southwest’s pricing.

“It’s perhaps safe to say (Southwest) may grow there initially and not grow too much thereafter, if history is a guide,” he wrote. “We believe (Southwest) will disrupt (Hawaiian Airlines) for a short period of time before pulling back or even abandoning service to Hawaii altogether after failing to gain traction there.”
Full article is here ( http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/1...ts-state-says/ ) behind a paywall.
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Old Oct 13, 2017, 4:33 pm
  #77  
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Originally Posted by slippahs
Excerpts from the newspaper in Honolulu this morning:



Full article is here ( http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/1...ts-state-says/ ) behind a paywall.
Honestly, I love these analysts talking as if they had knowledge that Southwest doesn't have. Southwest has competed with all the major US airlines in the past. And analysts have said, "Oh, Southwest can't compete with brand x at yyy because they are too strong" and yet Southwest is still around serving major markets.

Yes, Southwest is going to have to look at FF redemptions, but they have already allowed for higher numbers of points on certain routes at certain times. I would suspect the same will happen on the Hawaii routes.

As for checked bags, is Hawaii any different than some of the Caribbean or Central America destinations that WN is now serving? I would guess that passengers are more likely to check bags there as well. They just have to have the proper number of baggage handlers on duty. And, yes, they will have to have longer turn times in Hawaii no doubt.
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Old Oct 13, 2017, 5:41 pm
  #78  
 
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I agree that Southwest needs to come up with thoughtful free snacks for HI routes. I'd like to see Southwest do a snack that includes a protein (wrap or sandwich). I'd also like to see them cater mac nuts instead of peanuts (yes, honey roasted is possible).

I feel the overlap with the other three legacy carriers is more of interest. However, it seems the potential benefit is mostly the price battle versus the actual SWA service.

I see HA as a niche carrier. I think they still do a simple free meal too.

I also agree that LAS should be part of the launch group of routes.

Rasheed
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Old Oct 13, 2017, 6:44 pm
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Originally Posted by rasheed
I agree that Southwest needs to come up with thoughtful free snacks for HI routes. I'd like to see Southwest do a snack that includes a protein (wrap or sandwich).
Well, I wouldn't hold one's breath since they don't bother for as long flights such as OAK-BWI & LAX-BWI.
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Old Oct 13, 2017, 8:01 pm
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Often1
That would be massively expensive to do. WN won't have enough -MAX to service interisland in a meaningful way and it's doubtful that is a proper use of the aircraft. This means servicing interisland with standard equiptment and ferrying that without passengers due to eTOPS is a tough tough situation.
Why does WN need to allocate aircraft for inter-island service? They can run all of their flights as West Coast-Hawaii station-Hawaii station-West Coast and something like LIH-OGG-West Coast and back. Since there is no assigned seating it would no different than running an airplane LAX-PHX-DAL-DCA. The real question is whether or not WN will run eastbound redeyes.
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Old Oct 13, 2017, 8:31 pm
  #81  
 
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Originally Posted by formeraa
Honestly, I love these analysts talking as if they had knowledge that Southwest doesn't have.
So you are suggesting that FT "experts" understand the airline industry better than a full time airline analyst?

The fact that WN has yet to actually initiate service, despite AS doing so with 737's for more than 10 years, suggests the analyst may in fact have financial details from a WN insider...
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Old Oct 13, 2017, 8:53 pm
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Yes, many of us here understand the issues at hand better than "analysts" who still can't understand how WN exists without assigned seats and a hub and spoke network.

Why do you continue to troll this forum when you obviously hate WN?
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Old Oct 13, 2017, 9:21 pm
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Amicus
Today, in our local Las Vegas RJ newspaper, a great article on the huge number of Hawaiians who either live or visit here. Vegas was referred to as the "ninth Hawaiian island."
I totally understand why Allegiant failed on this route . . . it's Allegiant.

While LAS may not be the immediate inaugural route, I see WN adding it soon after HNL service begins next year. Boyd Gaming currently partners with Pleasant Holidays, I think, and uses charter aircraft.

Having a half million points right now with WN, I am still unlikely to use them on a near 6 hour flight with their present 3 X 3 seating. Ugh.
As others have noted, WN is very "hubby" these days in LAS, and that plus the Hawaii connection with LAS makes LAS-HNL pretty common sense to me.
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Old Oct 13, 2017, 9:53 pm
  #84  
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Originally Posted by ucdtim17
They could do a fuel stop at a California airport. AS often does SEA/PDX-OAK/SJC/SMF-Hawaii in winter when jet stream is strong enough.
Yes, depends if they have enough fuel. They shouldn't have any problems at all. It will be very strong high headwinds gusts.

Originally Posted by rasheed
I agree that Southwest needs to come up with thoughtful free snacks for HI routes. I'd like to see Southwest do a snack that includes a protein (wrap or sandwich). I'd also like to see them cater mac nuts instead of peanuts (yes, honey roasted is possible).
Or you can bring your own foods from home or you can go to concessions to buy a sandwiches. Whatever if you want. It's your choice.
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Old Oct 13, 2017, 10:40 pm
  #85  
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Originally Posted by diver858
So you are suggesting that FT "experts" understand the airline industry better than a full time airline analyst?

The fact that WN has yet to actually initiate service, despite AS doing so with 737's for more than 10 years, suggests the analyst may in fact have financial details from a WN insider...
Actually, as many longtime FT'ers know, I do have qualifications in the airline industry. My handle is "formeraa", as in ex-AA employee. In addition, I have a Ph.D. in Airline Transportation Systems from MIT. I follow the airline industry very closely and have for over 30 years now, though I no longer work in the industry.

There are a number of reasons why WN has NOT started service to Hawaii in the past, including the need to qualify for ETOPS, the need for an appropriate contract with pilots and FAs, the need for a state-of-the-art reservations system (unlike almost all other airlines, WN was WAY behind the curve here), the need to run redeye flights which will be essential to serving midwest/south/eastern passengers, and so forth.

They have made a decision to wait for the MAX8's which should be able to make Hawaii flights more reliable (see AS threads on fuel stops and realize that WN's 737-800s (and MAX 8s) hold approximately 15-20 more passengers than others and, hence, more weight and less range.

So, I think I have a little more insight that the "average" FTer. Not perfect by any means -- but just adding my slightly informed two cents here... Sometimes I'm wrong, sometimes I'm right... @:-)
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Old Oct 13, 2017, 10:47 pm
  #86  
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Originally Posted by rasheed
I agree that Southwest needs to come up with thoughtful free snacks for HI routes. I'd like to see Southwest do a snack that includes a protein (wrap or sandwich). I'd also like to see them cater mac nuts instead of peanuts (yes, honey roasted is possible).

I feel the overlap with the other three legacy carriers is more of interest. However, it seems the potential benefit is mostly the price battle versus the actual SWA service.

I see HA as a niche carrier. I think they still do a simple free meal too.

I also agree that LAS should be part of the launch group of routes.

Rasheed
While I think WN might come up with some sort of "Aloha" snack box with Hawaiian-themed snacks (e.g. mac nuts, tropical nut mix,etc.), I doubt they will offer a "protein". Yes, HA has free meals, but HA does NOT have free bags. If I need a full meal, I can eat something better at the airport before the flight or buy something to bring on board. AA serves snack mix from PHX to HNL, yet their flights are always full.
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Old Oct 14, 2017, 5:37 am
  #87  
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Originally Posted by diver858
So you are suggesting that FT "experts" understand the airline industry better than a full time airline analyst?
Have you ever examined the long-term performance of stock analysts vs. what the market actually does?

They sure hope you don't.

If they could predict the market, they wouldn't have to work as stock analysts.
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Old Oct 14, 2017, 7:42 am
  #88  
 
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Originally Posted by diver858
So you are suggesting that FT "experts" understand the airline industry better than a full time airline analyst?

The fact that WN has yet to actually initiate service, despite AS doing so with 737's for more than 10 years, suggests the analyst may in fact have financial details from a WN insider...
Yes, easily, an analyst has to continually convince others he knows something for a living while FT'ers collectively speculate with others out of the goodness of their hearts.

"financial details from a WN insider" would violate many SEC rules.
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Old Oct 14, 2017, 7:53 am
  #89  
 
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Originally Posted by Kevin AA
Aloha flew 737's for decades inter-island.

Southwest started by flying Dallas-Houston-San Antonio-Dallas, basically the same thing.

Makes perfect sense to me!
BWI-ORF is 30 mins. I think they WN has some intra FL flights that are very short. The only thing is they can rotate planes that do these short hops. The planes going to Hawaii will be unique. Not sure if that matters.
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Old Oct 14, 2017, 8:31 am
  #90  
 
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Originally Posted by Hot Pocket
Why do you continue to troll this forum when you obviously hate WN?
Since you asked:
1. I travel to Hawaii several times each year, primarily for leisure, exclusively on AS, as they offer the only nonstops from SAN to OGG, KOA. Any competition that lowers fares is a good thing, so I have a strong interest in the subject. In this specific case, I do not expect much if any of the hallowed "Southwest effect".
2. While I am sincerely happy that there are people who have convinced themselves WN is their best option - leaves more opportunities for free premium seats and upgrades on AS, which I am occasionally forced to pay for - WN marketing has dangled this carrot for almost 10 years, ever since their Hawaii award partner was forced out of business. As a sales and marketing professional, I am intrigued by the responses when even the HINT of Hawaii service drives the media and loyalists in to a lather.
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