ucfjoe

I know I'm the minority here but the only way I'd do this trip is if they offer some 2+2 biz seats same thing for transcon those are the only flights I refuse on WN.

Or let me book a second seat for myself. Still don't get why they won't allow this.

diver858

AS has well established nonstops to all of the major Hawaiian islands from SAN, HA has a daily nonstop to HNL, with extensive connections to the rest of the state. While I would love to see WN attempt to put some price pressure on AS, LAS makes MUCH more sense for WN - at least to start: less competition, significant connections.

Another LAS consideration: LAS is a VERY popular mainland vacation destination for Hawaiians, many casinos offer highly discounted air+hotel packages, some including meals. This would be a shrewd WN marketing ploy to gain favor with Hawaiians, difficult to understand why Allegiant failed.

ALARISstl

I'm with you. My last trip to Hawaii was with United, DEN-HNL, FC on a 777 for $2K. If BS fares are anything around $1K, wouldn't be worth it for me. But, I'm sure they will get plenty of folks to purchase "want to get away" fares for $500-$800

tusphotog

They ran the flight with a 737-700. Same with SNA. The -700 has much better performance out of "short" field airports (like BUR/SNA) than the -800s. Who knows if WN will get the Max7 ETOPS certified, but I doubt they'll do SNA/BUR to Hawaii with the -800s or the Max8s. Wouldn't be surprised if they do SNA/BUR-OAK-Hawaii though as same plane service.

IAH-OIL-TRASH

They did. Hardly means it was an optimal aircraft for the cycles required, but it's what Aloha had. Metal fatigue directly attributed to the high cycles led to pop-top flight 243. 737s are not an economically optimal a/c for use mostly on high-frequency 20-30 (Eg HNL-LIH/OGG) minute flights. WN, rather than basing 737s there, could work planes into a (for example) ONT-HNL-OGG-ONT type pattern. Multiple benefits to that. Multiple arguments why basing 737s there doesn't make sense in terms of a/c, schedule, pilot base, etc.

formeraa

Thanks for the more detailed explanation. Southwest has run 40-45 minute flights between DAL, HOU, AUS, and SAT for many years with 20-25 minute turn times (recently lengthen by 5-10 minutes). I'm surprised that WN hasn't had the same problems in the past -- I've certainly not seen any discussions in the past. Is it simply the difference between 20 minute flights and 40 minute flights?

Amicus

Today, in our local Las Vegas RJ newspaper, a great article on the huge number of Hawaiians who either live or visit here. Vegas was referred to as the "ninth Hawaiian island."
I totally understand why Allegiant failed on this route . . . it's Allegiant.

While LAS may not be the immediate inaugural route, I see WN adding it soon after HNL service begins next year. Boyd Gaming currently partners with Pleasant Holidays, I think, and uses charter aircraft.

Having a half million points right now with WN, I am still unlikely to use them on a near 6 hour flight with their present 3 X 3 seating. Ugh.

formeraa

Well, HA is also getting 3x3 A321s to serve Western destination...

Plus, we will have to wait and see how the MAX8 performs out of the HOT airports of LAS and PHX (if it actually can fly the Hawaii routes reliably during the summer).

Amicus

Totally agree. I recall cancelled flights this summer because of the extreme heat.

Big4Flyer

I could see them adding service from SMF-HNL, especially once HA downgrades their SMF-HNL route from the 767 to the A321 as they've said they'll do. That flight is 95%+ full nearly everyday, with fares consistent around $650 r/t, so there would certainly be room for WN.

tusphotog

The problem with the Aloha 737-300/400s came from them only doing interisland flights. The story I’ve heard is the engines couldn’t cool off since the time at cruise was so short (even when doing OGG-LIH). Southwest might do the short ONT-LAS or DAL-HOU-AUS-DAL flights, but they usually send the plane somewhere farther away after a couple of the short segments. You don’t see a WN plane doing 15 DAL-HOU-DAL flights all day. The JT8Ds on the 737-200s and DC-9s that Hawaiian used are better suited for that type of flying, since they’re not the type of high bypass engines found on the classic and NGs.


Of course, that was in the 90s and the engines found on the MAX8 might be much more capable of this type of operation. I still don’t think WN will do a ton of interisland flying. You’ll probably see them add one or two interisland segments before heading back to the mainland.

Aloha Air Cargo does fly 737-300s around the islands, but I’m sure they can do this effectively since the number of segments is much, much less than a passenger operation.

The only flights cancelled due to the heat in Phoenix were American CRJs. No mainline aircraft were affected. In fact, I flew out of Phoenix on one of the 118 degree days at 4pm. No issues for our -300, and as an added bonus, the airplane was freezing inside. Thankfully.

Of course, a PHX-SoCal flight is totally different than Hawaii, and I’m not sure the MAX8 has the performance to do Phoenix-Hawaii economically in the meat of the summer. We shall see.

N830MH

Precisely! Because of the weather. It was always too extremely hot during in Summer. The temperature is 122 degree or above. Those aircraft who cannot takeoff. Due to high extreme heat weather. Once the temperature is dropping to 100 degree or below.

formeraa

Interesting! I had just not heard this story about the 737 engine issues before. Of course, I know that the DC9/717 series thrives on shorter routes and are virtually indestructible.

My point was that, back in the day, many of WN's planes did do the DAL-AUS/HOU/SAT-DAL or similar all day long because that was the backbone of their route structure for many years. There must be a significant difference between 15-30 minute flights vs. 35-50 minute flights.

3Cforme

CRJs were cancelled because of off-operating chart temps.

Mainline aircraft may be cancelled due to other impediments: lower thrust from engines and less lift from wings in high heat. Carrying less weight via less fuel may not be an option - there's no halfway tech stop for refueling. Bumping 15 passengers on a hot day wouldn't be popular, either.

ucdtim17

They could do a fuel stop at a California airport. AS often does SEA/PDX-OAK/SJC/SMF-Hawaii in winter when jet stream is strong enough.